The new RL is the graveyard of German footy..

Discussion in 'Germany' started by Schwalker, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. "Eisenfuß" Eilts

    Jul 1, 2005
    In the sun ;)
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Wilhelmshaven wants to fight against the FIFA and sue the case to a civil court.

    http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...8/artikel_svw-sagt-der-fifa-den-kampf-an.html

    The club layer, who is convinced that FIFA law breaks German and European law in this case, said literally: What happens here is criminal by the FIFA and we will not bend over. It will be a David vs. Goliath fight for us, but we have to make this an example case.
     
  2. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Fascinating it seems however that Germany far right party the NDP is on the brink of collapse what that says of east Germany rejection to the far right is less clear.
     
  3. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    The NPD makes even HSV look run competently. Worst thing that could happen would be that it is replaced by a party that's not run by morons some day.
     
  4. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe you have to be a moron to believe some of their stuff.
     
    Lupin III repped this.
  5. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    One can believe some stupid shit and still be generally competent. The NPD fails at the most basic level, though - those guys can't stop backstabbing each other for a minute to even be able to pretend to work together. The guys running the party hate each other more than they hate them foreigners, probably.
     
  6. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I heard Jamel a town in eastern Germany is complexity controlled by neo-nazis with Aryan gothic murals depicting far right glory. Seems like many areas of rural or depopulated areas of east Germany have latched onto far right wing neo-nazism. Has things really improved since Rostock in east Germany?
     
  7. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    That "town" has 35 inhabitants (no, I am not missing any zeros). Taking over 4 or 5 houses probably doesnt take that long. The problem is that neither the federal nor state governments really give a shit about rural Eastern Germany. Neo nazis basically only fill the gap that's left by the absence of public institutions.
     
  8. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Interesting. Well I don't think eastern Germany will ever be represented officially by the far right but that their ideology, ideas have sympathy with large swaths of the population there. Is it just because of economic depressed area or is it because it a xenophobic area of Germany.
     
  9. CCinGermany

    CCinGermany Member

    May 3, 2006
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    History has shown that the former has a way of exacerbating the latter.
     
  10. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Weren't the guest workers in the GDR treated terribly compared to their western counterparts? Showing that the GDR was really xenophobic.
     
  11. Hobo

    Hobo Member+

    Apr 29, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    could just relocate them http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/w...to-strip-it-away-for-the-coal-underneath.html
     
  12. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Not more xenophobic than the rest of Germany. It's just a few decades behin on this contact with other cultures thing. While there were foreigners in East Germany, the government kept them isolated from the rest of the population. Foreign workers often did not learn German, they only stayed in Germany for a limited time and could not bring their families, and they did not interact with "regular" citizens at all. There were also foreign students in East Germany, but those hardly left the big cities I guess.

    This wasn't much different from what West Germany would have liked to do actually, but the not-having-the-same-options-as-a-communist-dictatorship-thing made this somewhat less effective.
     
  13. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Well - finally we'll start to get rid of reserve teams :eek:. The DFL changed their rules, and pro clubs are no required anymore to have reserve side in the regular league pyramid. Some clubs, especially Bayer Leverkusen probably (since they got the rule change underway), will abolish their U23 after this season already.
     
  14. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Partilally thats good. will it also apply for 3.liga? However why will the pro clubs wants get rid of the u23 teams? Isnt it a good opportunity to give the younger players in Bayern and other places some playing time? 
    Again arent these reserve (U23) teams technically the amateur top team of the pro clubs? I mean the pro clubs all originates in an amateur team and they have a top side right?
     
  15. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Costs. The vast majority of players from the reserves never make it, the most talented players go from the youth straight into pro football. You will most likely see more loans in the future as a consequence, like they do in England. The U23 sides aren't really the club's amateur teams anymore, not since the 1990s. Especially with the age limits - the real amateur teams are the third teams now (most prominently Werder Bremen III in the Oberliga), if clubs have one.
     
  16. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    I had the impression that a club as Bayern were very interested in their reserve team as a mean to have a stronger top squad and that was one of the reasons why reserve teams were let in the 3. liga.

    Will the old III teams now be called II teams?

    How will this apply to prommotion and relegation this year?
     
  17. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oddly enough MLS in the US is going the opposite direction--requiring teams to either have a team in USL-Pro (third division) or loan out at least 4 players to a partner team. LA Galaxy II begins play this season for example, while my Crew is partnering with Dayton. But we need more player development in the US as the jump from youth to pro is often too big (our teams are already required to have a youth academy).
     
  18. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    I think theres the fact that the US expansion model to max 30 teams has its limitations when coming to the issue producing as many talents thats competitive for international competition. The US league format is created for sports that has no international level. Therefore they need another entity to have enough material to choose from to the international events.
     
  19. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Those who want to still can have one after all, and I assume for the time being most will keep the team. And Bayern don't really have to worry about the costs anyway.

    Well, probably, I guess... if a club with a third teams abolishes the second at least. Not all clubs have a third team.

    Hard to say without knowing which, if any, clubs will abolish their second team. But if a club does this would most likely be treated like a club relegating voluntarily, meaning that one other team would be spared relegation.
     
  20. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Sorry I presumed that the reserves would be abolished, hence the questions :coffee:
     
  21. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While our system is different, I don't think that's the reason at all. While the US does not (and will not ever) have promotion/relegation, there are far more than 30 teams in the US. There are only 19 (at this time) first division teams. Part of the problem is that national leagues at a lower level are very expensive due to travel. Part of the reason is that some development is done at the college level--and the teams simply do not play enough. Part is the fact that there are multiple sports that pay quite well at the pro level in the US. That's not as true elsewhere.

    And while football of the US variety doesn't have much in the way of an international level, the colleges are sufficient to develop players. But the othe three major sports do have an international component. While the US based leagues do dominate at that level, hockey and basketball are played at a top pro level elsewhere now--and baseball has an international component with important leagues in Japan for one plus central and part of south america and the islands. And Mexico.
     
  22. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Well that was what the japanese also thought. Japan always had a sporting system like the US, when J-League was created in 1991 (started in 1993) it was looking very much as most american leagues. The first years they expanded like US, they expanded in the big markets as US would, then the bold decision came to make a 2nd. Division.... it kept expanding until they had 40 clubs 2 years ago and could close the League if they wanted, but realised that 40 pro teams and the amateur league system didnt configure well enough in terms of talent recruiting and talent development, so they last year made the very bold decision to make a so caled J-League 3rd. division (Basically they cant be full pro since not enough money for them) however the argument was to make a better link between amateur leagues and pro system.

    You can say the league realised they needed a semi pro system to fit in. One of the reasons also to do this was to make a U-22 team to give young players from the 40 pro rosters some playing time, with the direct aim to win Olympic gold in 2016.

    While the meadias and 90% of people in Japan are critisizing this move because it doesnt fit with the philosophy of economic markets and arguments like, the league has stated that mass development of players are pivotal for national team success.
     
  23. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well one of the big differences between the US and Japan is size. That's largely what has made it tough to develop a system. Travel costs make it very difficult for smaller leagues to succeed (and I used to know a USL owner who explained it). Germany, for example, is roughly the size of Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Maryland put together--and it wasn't that long ago that the 3rd BL was regional. Plus, the US Soccer Federation is much more hands off than the DFB. MLS doesn't tell the USSF what to do--nor do they tell the other pro and semi pro leagues what to do. In fact the new NASL, currently at the second division level, wants to be a first division league too (which is unlikley to happen, but...).
     
    ChrisSSBB repped this.
  24. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    While I do agree that distances is a big factor, and therefore historically it would probably have been most logical and probably best if one league pr. state had developed (50 leagues in europe varying in size with not that many more inhabitants) (We are talking of the sporting culture and not if its about soccer).

    While I think still when you use the point that MLS and US Soccer are not linked, this is a symptom of culture a sporting culture where hardcore cash and no international competitions have been thought in. For a league to make a 3rd tier to promote the level of play its about looking at more softvalues and somehow probably because American Football, Basketball, Hockey and Baseball really hasnt developed an international objective this lack of soft values has somehow not been copied over to the soccer system.
     
  25. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are mistaken about basketball and hockey. Baseball has a worldcup now--has had it for quite a few years. And they started this season in Australia a couple of days ago. The main difference is that the US doesn't use the club model, by and large, for its pro sports. They are franchises owned by an owner. Youth soccer in the US is more club oriented, of course. That somewhat true of all youth sports here--though they are mostly run on a league basis rather than individual clubs coming together to form a league--the local organization often is the league not the club. But there are many youth clubs as well for soccer. Many youth leagues run through religious associations. And, of course, most sports are also recognized and run throught the school system. Part of the reason that can work in the US is that eveyone goes to the same schools though the end of high school. There once was a club system for many sports. Baseball's Oakland Athletics were once the baseball team of the Philadelphia Athletic Club. But much of that died in the Depression.
     

Share This Page