That's funny because for the majority of his time at United, people will perceive Vida as covering Rio's weaknesses when in fact, Vida would have been exposed far more had he been playing our high line without the likes of Rio, Evans and even Smalling (who teleports rather than sprints).
Who thinks that? I thought most people recognize that Vida is more the charge ahead kind of guy simply because Rio has his back.
Still he would be among A graded/rated players if we do our team grading, not many better defenders than him of that style.
Yeah, that's why I thought Nev's comments were interesting. Vidic was better than him in both 09/10, and 10/11 imo, but still not as good as Ferdinand was at his very best and I say that as someone who is a big fan of Vida's type of defender. Also think it's a toss up between who was better out of Vidic and Stam for 2nd place during the length of Nev's career. nimma and I picked Stam early in the draft, can't remember if Vidic had already gone off the top of my head.
Stam was better than Vida. If Stam had played next to Rio in his prime we might never have conceded a goal. Ever.
I know, twas hyperbole. The thing is though, Stam was the proactive guy. Had he had a partner like Rio, I don't think he'd have been exposed nearly as often as he was.
I know my opinions differ from most on this board, rightly or wrongly, regarding Vidic. I'm a massive fan of him, but I understand what people say with regards to Ferdinand being able to organise the back-line better etc, I also think Vidic was a far better one v one defender than Ferdinand, again my opinion. There are times this season I think we have really missed him, not only as a player as a captain as well. Given the league we play in, we've really missed his aerial prowess. In the air, he's one of the best at both ends of the path. Not for anything, but I couldn't see Kompany getting away from Vidic on the corner or us conceding so many headers via Everton. Points about Ferdinand helping Vidic are fine, a partnership goes a long way in forging a CBs reputation and a lot of the time it's how they work together, but suggesting that Smalling and Evans bail him out is a joke.
Couple things. In his playing career, with the ball on the ground there is only one player who is even in the conversation as Rio's (when he's operating at the height of his powers) equal when it comes to defending 1v1. That guy is an all time great. You may have heard of him, his name is Allessandro Nesta. Evans is the best natural defender at this club since an oft drunk Irishman/demigod. You are right about Smalling, he hasn't bailed Vida out so much as been an insurance policy. Getting behind a backline that features Smalling is very very unlikely.
I think the issue with Vidic for those who appreciate the elite level of defending in an all-encompassing sphere, is that he lacks, sorely, in some of the key aspects and is never held to scrutiny for it by those who favour him over someone who was in the toppermost echelon for these aspects, namely, Rio. Vidic is badly exposed by small, pacey, technically brilliant forwards. Even without being technically brilliant, pace and short-burst acceleration into early takes (i.e snapshots, shorter-extensions on shooting motion, toe-pokes etc) is really, really problematic for him, to the point where, at times, he has looked amatuerish against those who combine these traits or are the elan of a particular facet. Play along the ground is rated far higher than aerial prowess and the ability to battle big men in tussles, and it's the reason why the likes of Nesta, Rio, Carvalho and this ilk were so highly rated in their prime. None of them are as good as Vidic in the air, and there's fair debate to be had that the likes of a Drogba at his best would cause all of them a lot more trouble than he did/does Vidic, but Drogba-level forwards of that type do not come around often and they are certainly not prevalent enough to upset the natural order of things on that world scale of renown. At the highest levels, all of the aforementioned defenders have marvellous CV's against the very best strikers and have produced performances that earmark them as generational greats, if not all-timers. Vidic's CV pales by comparison. The Premier League is an interesting beast for us regarding this discussion, however. Aerial bombardment, big men and power play on set pieces all feature heavily and there's no doubt that in this department Vidic is #1 and up there with Terry, Adams, Campbell & probably Bruce as the top tier of hard-men defenders you'd want for that in the PL era. I'd also say the above skews perception of the two when compared to each other because Vidic's style and the opposition faced is going to allow him the chance to look impressive far more often than Rio's, which really comes to the fore when matched with the best ground-based players and tricky forwards - especially in Europe. It tends to be only then that the masses really appreciate him. On a week-by-week basis, I don't think Rio ever got the props he deserved because what he did was taken for granted whereas talk of Vidic's dominance in his strongsuits would become legion to the point a somewhat fallacious entity and persona have been created for him, which he himself has said isn't really him. Rio hasn't got a song that'll go down in folklore... whether that's because of his contract dispute or his playing style is a matter for debate... I know which side of that particular fence I side with! I've nothing against Vidic, and have always rated him for his strengths, but his weaknesses have always been there and led to many nail-biting moments as I pray he's not sent off for the blatancy of his flailing and shirt-tugging when beaten by a piece of trickery or outright pace on a kick and rush when our high-line exposes him. At the same time, I've always baulked at the suggestion he was ever in Rio's league as a defender, because, for me, there's a tier between them in understanding and reading of the game. Rio, at his best, has so few equals that it's not even funny, I haven't even mentioned his ability to carry others and cover for a weak CB and sometimes a weak RB at the same time! There are very few defenders in history, let alone in the English game over the years, who had what he did. Vidic, particularly in the English game, is one of hundreds over its inception who excel at those facets of the game - his fortune is that he did it with us during an extremely successful era for the club. The obvious counter to that is that it was he who contained Drogba in the CL final and his role was vital in the team, which is true enough, but as I said above, I think I could name at least 50 CB's (and probably 100) from the history of English football who could've done what he did in their primes but never had the opportunity to. For Rio, there's maybe 10 and even then, he's going to be in the top 5, at the very least. I've digressed a bit, but I think I've put the key points across. A list of hard-men CB's for the PL era would be an interesting exercise.
My question to everyone else is, which defenders [outside of those at the club] are better than Vidic [whatever type of defender they may be] in this day in age? I personally cant think of more than 3.
I'd rate Kompany higher, marginally. Possibly Silva on his day. I know this board hates EBJT, but when utilized properly, he is a fantastic defender. On par with Vida I think from a purely football view. Problem is, he's been shunted around tactically so much, especially under AVB, that it's reall affected some of his performances. I actually fear the day when Vida loses a half yard of pace and how we adapt with our higher line. It's not optimal now, but Vida has enough pace to cope with it. I'm dreading when that goes in a few years, possibly following this injury.
That's fine, you make a lot of very good points. I have never had any issues with anyone saying they think Ferdinand is better, I just took exception to the fact that people state that Evans and Smalling are better options and "bail him out" when in truth, especially Evan's form prior to the latter half of (or most of) the season this has been, let's say ordinary. Stating Rio is better is fine, but I do think the amount of crap Vidic cops on this board is a joke.
True that....I think VIda wasn't yet picked up when we made the choice Republic of Mancunia....I just absolutely loved Stam.....
We've suspected most of our defenders of being either pot heads or coke head's for years now. That's what Johno is getting at.
At United we tend to play our football more in the opposition final third than anywhere else. As a result, our defenders push up far up the pitch, allowing us to retain possession if/when the opposition clears the ball. Other teams sit deeper, allowing their opponents to play in front of them. We dare teams to try and get behind us. We play "high" up the pitch, which exposes defenders who don't read the game exceedingly well or possess extreme pace.
Haha no, mate, I know what a high line is. What I'm saying is I don't agree that we play a high line. Our defenders get possession of the ball often, but I definitely wouldn't say we have a high line. It's one of the reasons why we so rarely catch anyone offside, and when we do, it's more because of the attacker's fault than our defense's credit.
In the league, only Arsenal play a higher line. A high line is one of the tenets of our football and it is one of the reasons Vidic tries to play rugby ever so often.
If we don't play a high line, why do we constantly see Vidic running into the back of opponents in their own half? Just like when he was injured.