Leandro plays in PSV in Holland but currently out of action until decemberand about Diego,it is up to Santos.He is got plenty of offers from the the biggest clubs,Juventus,Milan,Bayern,ManU and Real to name a few.
ROBINHO Yes, don't forget about Robinho on Santos. He is overshadowed by Diego, but Robinho has incredible potential. As a Flamengo fan, I was happy to see Diego not playing for Santos v. Flamengo last week. I thought Fla would have a good chance of picking up a much needed (and rare) win. I was wrong. Robinho single-handedly destroyed Flamengo. The kid is really good. And not only that, but he plays with a smile on his face. That kind of attitude will take him a long way as he deals with pressure and expectations.
It's interesting how Barcelona's 3 Brazilians never seem to figure in any discussion about talented young Brazilian players. Geovanni has really been disappointing, but both Rochemback and Motta look like they good grow into high quality midfield enforcers. I know that Gilberto Silva is only just hitting the big time and Kleberson is just 23, but Rochemback in particular reminds me a lot of Dunga, and I don't see why he shouldn'[t be a strong challenger to these two in about 2 years time. Anyone want to fill me in on what Brazillians think of them?
That maybe becos they haven't fulfilled their talent - to be talked about I suppose you gotta be 'doing it'. It's more temptinho to talk about Kaka (who more than resembles Ronaldo in looks and style of play), Robinho and Diego the current darlings of Brazil.
Diego's first Club Comercial from Ribeirão Preto, SP http://lancenet.ig.com.br/idxn.asp?f=/news/news_lft.htm&p=/noticias/02-12-22/FUT/SAN/L120889.htm
both countries have good players always will have good players. futbol is in both country culture, but I think brazil have better young talent for that matter better players regardless of age. Although In my opinion Maradona is better than Pele.
Not wanting to start another Pele v Maradona debate (disclaimer)...but I would be interested to know why you consider Maradona to be the better player?
because Pele had good players playing with him so he didn't do it all by himself. Maradona was by himself carrying the whole team. He was the goal scorer the creator, the dribbler, the Miestro, commandor, Maradona was the Jack of all trade and the master of the game, he played out of instinct.
Yeah but did he play keeper as well? Let's face it, noone ever had the soccer intelligence that Pelé had. Even if he played today he would be light-years ahead of most players as far as knowing what to do with the ball.
If the names other than Robinho that have been mentioned are truely better than him, the rest of the world is in big trouble in a few years (again). His talent is incredible and I expect to see him high on the list for FIFA World Player of the Year perhaps in 4 years. I think he has that potential. He has great speed, control, passing and a mind for creating and makes seasoned defenders look out of place on the field with him at times. Don't scare me by saying these others are better! lol..
I don't want to, but I must........ This argument is so overdone and exaggerated. Let me say that Maradona is one of the greats of all time, but...... 1) He may have carried the 1986 Argentina team to the world cup. Those six games do not make him the best. Here's the analogy.....Akeem Olajuwon (my favorite basketball player of all time) carried the Houston Rockets to two NBA championships in 1994-95. His run during the 1st of those chmapionships was unbelievable. No player I have ever seen has come close to winning an NBA championship as single handedly as he did. None of the other players on that 1994 championship team (other than Akeem) will ever sniff the Hall of Fame. Yet, I would not dream of saying he was better than Jordan, because Jordan had Pippen (Hall of Famer) and Rodman (potential Hall of Famer). 2) People love to say that at Napoli was a one man team. Granted Maradona was the focus, but let's look closer. That Napoli team also had... Careca - Brasilian international, and one of the best forwards of the 1980s Alemao - Brasilian international midfielder Andrea Carnevale - Italian international defender So, including Maradona, that's 4 international level players out of 11. An Argentine, two Brasilian, and an Italian international no less. Hardly the weak team the myth would have you believe! (Why don't they ever mention Maradona's the lack of success at Barcelona?) 3) "Pele had great players around him" argument. Pray tell why is it that Brasil never won a single WC before Pele despite greats like Leonidas da Silva, Ademir, Zizinho, etc...Then with Pele they win 3 out of 4 world cups? Coincidence? Pray tell why Jairzinho, Gerson, Tostao, Brito, and Edu didn't manage to win ONE game without Pele (after getting hurt in initial Bulgaria game, in which he and Garrincha scored) during WC 1966. Those players went home after the first round, with the European press claiming Brasilian football was in decline. Then magically four years later, in 1970, with a healthy Pele for the whole tournament, these same players win it all and are forever known as all-time greats. Coincidence? Finally, and most emphatically, Santos. Club play is where champions are truly measured. Santos was nothing before Pele showed up. He won everthing with the club - 2 Libertadores, 2 World Championships, and 5 Taca Brasil (before Brasileiro) - and made that club the acknowledged strongest in the world for almost a decade. Did Maradona's Napoli team ever come close to be as well regarded or as accomplished? Coincidence? Let's see, Pele ushers in a decade of world dominance -- not one championship here or there, but multiple championship campaigns in a defined period of time -- for his club AND national sides, while managing to score over +1000 goals. If Pele isn't the best of all time, he certainly must be the luckiest . If only Robinho can come close.
I don't really want to make this thread into a Pele vs Maradona one either tpmazembe but I feel I need to respond to a couple of your comments. First of all both Pele and Maradona were great players and it's so hard to compare them since they played in different eras and played different positions. But one myth I would like to dispel is that Pele won 3 World Cups. While Pele was a member of Brazil's 1962 World Cup winners he barely played in that tournament as he went off injured in the 2nd game of the Cup and never returned. 1962 was Garrincha's year and he was the leader of that Brazilian team. Maradona may not have won as many World Cups as Pele but if you look at his record he came very close and Argentina during his playing days was a dominant team in multiple World Cups. I will say that in 1982, he was too young and couldn't handle the pressure that was placed on him in his first World Cup. Interestingly that 1982 Argentina team, which had a good many players from the 1978 world champions was one of Argentina's best teams on paper. But in 1982 they just didn't produce. Pele, in 1958, however, had the benefit of being a virtual unknown to the outside world prior to the 1958 World Cup. But Maradona, like Ronaldo in 1998 had the entire world watching his every move in 1982. We all know the success Maradona had in 1986 where he probably had the greatest World Cup of all time but in 1990 he also took a very mediocre Argentina team to the World Cup final. While not totally fit in 1990 he still was able to produce some magic when needed and led that relatively poor team to the final where they were beaten by a controversial penalty awarded in Germany's favor. In 1994 Maradona made his comeback and his team was playing sensationally before he was suspeneded for taking banned stimulants. Prior to his suspension Argentina was looking like the 1994 Cup's best team (or at least the equal of Brazil that year. A matchup between them would have been a joy to watch). So that's 3 straight World Cups (1986-1994) where Argentina was one of, if not the, best teams in the world. That record compares very favoarably to Pele's. Curiously when Maradona was surrounded by better players (1982 and 1994) his team wasn't as successful as they could have been but when he didn't have as many good players around him he took his team to a World Cup title and a 2nd place finish. You already know Pele's story and his great successes but i don't think anyone can deny that Pele played with a better generation of players around him and that help explains his higher amount of World Cup titles. But the margin in World Cups they actually helped their nations win is remarkably close. Arguments can be made in favor of both of them as the greatest player of all time. I say we leave that argument for another time but simply recall with fondness their greatness.
Ok bringing this thread back on topic, I see that neither Robinho nor Diego are playing for Brazil in the U-20 South American tournament. Any idea from the Brazil fans here of who are the players on the current U-20 team to watch?
Hold on...we can blame RonDen for bringing up the issue and you can blame me for pursuing the it but I just wanted to see if a new pro Maradona argument was forth coming and,...disappointingly, no it's the same old, same old. One small point Merengue + RonDen, is it easier for a player to look good in an inferior team or superior team?
Merengue, my post was not intended to convince anyone of anything...only to add perspective. Your opinion is appreciated because it doesn´t denigrate. Fact is, even if you remove Pele´s 1962 WC from him, he still has twice the number of WCs Maradona has, with two different generation of players. That means something. All the ´almosts´, and `could have beens` do not amount to much...if they did then Johan Neeskens would be in this discussion. Secondly, you convienently didn´t address the sudden emergence of Santos as a world power; then the steep decline for 30 odd years after. It centers around the original number 10. Or do you have another explaination? We can agree to disagree. Back on topic, I saw the last two sub-20 Brasil games and have been impressed with the whole team....quick to ball....quick decisions....and clean tackling. Kudos for Carlos Alberto (midfield) and Daniel Carvalho (forward). There´s a guy I saw play in the Toulon Tournament last year for Brasil who wore the number 10 who was impressive as hell. Seems he is playing in some Italian developmental league. Anyone know who I´m talking about?
tpmazembe asked, " you convienently didn´t address the sudden emergence of Santos as a world power; then the steep decline for 30 odd years after. It centers around the original number 10. Or do you have another explaination?" Obviously Pele's play is a big reason why Santos became a world power in the 60's but then disappeared off the world scene for years without him. But the same applies also to Napoli who during Maradona's years won Italian and UEFA Cups and consistently were one of Europe's better teams. Now they are currently last in Serie B. So like Santos without Pele, Napoli without Maradona has seen a drastic fall from their previous standing. It will always be a matter of opinion to who was the world's best. I can't really say which one was better as I've only really seen Pele in highlight films. For what it's worth, my late father, who saw both Pele and Maradona still thought Di Stefano was the best player he had ever seen! Again it's all a personal decision. Let's just relish their greatness and the fond memories they each gave us fans.
