The Middle Class Blames every one but themselves

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by DoctorD, Aug 23, 2012.

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  1. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    This is no news, but here it is anyaways...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/u...ass-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?_r=0

     
  2. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Chicago Red Stars
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    United States
    Fvck those Canadians for building a wall to stop poor Americans from moving there in search of a better life.
     
  3. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
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    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not a wall ,it's a snowbank
     
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  4. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  5. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
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    United States
    The Labatt's tequila sounds interesting.
     
  6. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    American Brummie repped this.
  7. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    From the NY Times story -

    In the U.S., the right would successfully get the middle and working class to take down Jonas. Not so in Sweden, or in many other European countries.
     
  8. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    In addition to that article, the NYT has an article on wage theft. In the Tech sector...

    Which (********) I can't find right now.
     
  9. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That's because it was an editorial...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/22/opinion/wage-theft-across-the-board.html?hp&rref=opinion


    When wage theft against low-wage workers is combined with that against highly paid workers, a bad problem becomes much worse. Data compiled by the Economic Policy Institute show that in 2012, the Department of Labor helped 308,000 workers recover $280 million in back pay for wage-theft violations — nearly double the amount stolen that year in robberies on the street, at banks, gas stations and convenience stores.

    Moreover, the recovered wages are surely only a fraction of the wage theft nationwide because the Labor Department has only about 1,100 wage-and-hour investigators to monitor seven million employers and several states have ended or curtailed wage enforcement efforts.​

     
  11. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Interesting interview:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/princeton-scholar-demise-of-democracy-america-tpm-interview





    What are the three or four most crucial factors that have made the United States this way?
    Very good question. I'd say two crucial factors. One central factor is the role of money in our political system, and the overwhelming role that affluent individuals that affluent individuals and organized interests play, in campaign finance and in lobbying. And the second thing is the lack of mass organizations that represent and facilitate the voice of ordinary citizens. Part of that would be the decline of unions in the country which has been quite dramatic over the last 30 or 40 years. And part of it is the lack of a socialist or a worker's party.

    What does the broader social science literature say about societies that go into this non-democracy state? Do you see this as a pendulum that swings back and forth, or is it a sort of tipping point from which there's no way back?
    That's kind of a gloomy question!

    It's my job to ask those.
    I don't know. There have been periods -- the ages of Robber Barons and Trusts, the progressive era where there was too much concern about concentration of power. I'm not a historian, so I don't know -- maybe it takes a Great Depression.

    Your study calls to mind something that Dennis Kucinich, the former congressman, said years ago during the recession. He essentially said the class war is over and the working class lost. Was he right?
    I mean, for now, it certainly seems like it. The middle class has not done well over the last three and a half decades, and certainly has not done well during the Great Recession. The political system responded to the crisis in a way that led to a pretty nice recovery for economic elites and corporations.
     
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  12. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    [​IMG]
     
    guignol, fatbastard and dapip repped this.
  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Again, that phrase 'that dare not speak it's name'.
     
  14. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
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    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  15. Pass-n-Go

    Pass-n-Go Member+

    Jul 5, 2008
  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How about the war on the poor.

    Median income is about 29K.

    Going by the 35% of you income as a house payment rule (35% of your monthly check). That would mean that for homes to be affordable, the median home price should be around 125K-150K (30 year loan with good credit, so maybe even lower).

    http://www.census.gov/const/uspriceann.pdf

    In 2010 the median was 221K

    So homes are too expensive for the low middle and poor to afford.
     
  17. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Yesterday I read a piece where the author recalled the good old days when High School drop outs could make a decent living and afford houses and cars on what was then the median wage. If I remember correctly, only a few years of your income would buy you a new house (probably very small and without a lot of the modern amenities).

    I also recall from several other pieces that once the oil crisis crippled the auto industry and manufacturing started its decline, the first measure was for the wife to look for a job to suplement/replace the income that was lost.

    Once manufacturing left the rust belt, the only jobs left were low paying jobs so in order to afford things people had to use consumer credit. The availability of credit pushed the prices of houses and cars and other goods up, resulting on the buble that bursted in 2007.
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Chicago Red Stars
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    United States
    Yes, the biggest income collapse is among high School or below educated, low paying manufacturing jobs can be done over seas and that has helped the poor in other countries.

    Higher min wages will push more manufacturing jobs over seas or increase robotics to replace labor, the benefits will be for services that can not be automated or outsourced.

    That is the trade off.
     
  19. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
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    Millonarios Bogota
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    You forgot the young and educated burdened with debt. Besides, there are plenty of ways and several manufacturing jobs that can still be done here but we do need governmente initiatives to accomplish that.

    Investment in infrastructure, development of alternative energy sources, healthcare, hi-tech goods, etc.

    But that means a radical change in the failed approach of the last 40 years, instead of focusing on corporate profits care about people, something like the Human Development Index. We don't have to be the richest country in the world (as a matter of fact China will have a bigger economy in 2015 and several OECD countries will top our income by the end of the decade) as long as we can make life better for our population.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well this is because you have a grandiose idea of what the government should do.
     
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  21. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Big Government worked (with some external help) for about 4 or 5 decades. Heck, even what remains in place still holds this country together and prevents plenty of people from dying like in any third world country. It beats the heck of small government (the kind that will drown in a bathtub).
     
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  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The good old days were not so good for everyone.

    Also can you point me to the 4 or 5 "big government" decades.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
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    France
    that must be the median in the US. my guess is that in CA it's twice that. and i don't think CA median income is twice the national.

    and yet people still flock to the golden state as a land of opportunity within the land of opportunity.

    barnum 2.0: there's a sucker born every second.
     
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is why expensive states should have higher min wages.

    Illinois may get a 10+ dollar min wage, and some Chicago politicians want a $15 Cook county (or city limits) min wage. I think that is the way to go.
     

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