The Michael Bradley Thread

Of course Argentine and Brazilian players are probably the best in the world and there is no disputing this. Still even Sepp Blatter a few years ago declared the MFL the most important league outside Europe. Things may have changed in the last few years and Brazil may have overtaken them but there were times in the past where many of their clubs couldn't even pay their players. Same as Argentina. Former GK Dario Sala of Dallas for example, who is now a player agent explained his club wouldn't pay him for weeks at a time and he was happy to play in the MLS because he was getting his paycheck every week with no questions or excuses. As far as Mexicans are concerned, the only ones I remember who were ever contacted by Italian clubs were Hugo Sanchez with Inter when he came from Real Madrid but never signed because of the foreign player limit at the time and also because he was injured and Rafa Marquez of Roma who instead signed with Monaco and then Barcelona. From what I remember no others were even sought out or has ever played in Italy ...

 

You really think that Serie A clubs have extensive scouting networks in any of those countries? I doubt it. They hear about players from the Ivory Coast while scouting the French League. That's my assumption anyway.

 

Actually the US is ahead of other "top nations" in licensing coaches. The problem is getting the academies up to standard, and getting then Non-MLS Affiliated academies up to standard as well.

Also while we are getting more coaches, we don't have much experience in developing talent at the highest level. So many coaches who are in what would be considered important coaching positions in Europe have only college experience or are former MLS players who their whole career stateside and never were exposed to high level development.

It all comes back to money, some of the coaching budgets clubs like that of Ajax have we just can't compete with. It's proven over and over again you get what you pay for, and MLS youth coaches are basically on part-time wages. Clubs like Ajax have a €4.5m youth budget. Which clearly in the MLS right now is just unreasonable, the clubs don't generate enough revenue.

I personally feel the MLS has the model all wrong with DP's and aging players. I've said this before but the MLS should be in the business of creating superstars not buying ones on the decline. So the USSF and MLS should be collaborating on improving the standards of coaching and development.

For perception if the MLS became known as a league where young talent is bred than I actually think it would make the league more entertaining. I mean I watch Dutch, French, and German league because of the young exciting players. There's the intrigue of where these players might go, to another league or to a bigger club in the league. That makes for interesting viewing.

The MLS has a few young players who have interested MLS clubs but I still think the ones coming from our system are technically not up to the standard as if they were in a European training environment. In truth the only way this will ever change is if revenues increased and USSF became more assertive about the standards of development. So it's going to be a slow process.

Side Note: I think Bradley when he retires will be a hell of a coach with his pedigree and now playing under some decent managers. Hopefully some of what Zeman has rubs off on him and he brings it back stateside.

 

I agree with what you say about the US/MLS talents usually not being up to standard technically.
The various reasons why Europe and South America are well ahead of the MLS are fairly clear.

However, there's one other country I notice moving ahead in terms of producing more technical young players and would be curious as to how they're doing things differently: Japan?

 

I personally think the academies is something that is up in the air and something almost impossible to translate into US Soccer. I've said this in other threads but to me, I think these MLS acedemies will not work as everyone , including the private ones want to be number one. Up in Northern California there are two different ones that are really good for example the Tri Valley Mustangs in the East Bay (headed by Quakes GM John Doyle) and the De Anza Force headed by a few former MLS and NASL Quakes players Jeff Baicher and Chris Dangerfield along with the professional Quakes academy. The two former ones are much better than the professional teams academy and most of their players seem to make it to bigger and better things. What I think MLS should do is work more closely with the NCAA college players because all the top players want to go to college and I don't blame them as most of them all get free college scholarships while the pro teams don't offer this at all. This is something that by the way will never happen in Europe as athletes are not recruited by major universities.

Speaking strictly and/or going back to the scouting, I seriously do not believe how a club can't gain a scouting report on a player wherever he plays. Forget about placing scouts in Brazil or Africa or how big the USA is but in this day and age of video, films, TV, Internet and what have you , is it really that impossible to scout a certain player or league from a any country? When I worked at Fiorentina 10 years ago of course it was like that but not now..... I mean seriously, with all the data , history and information we have at our disposal, we can find all kinds of news on anyone. I mean we aren't living in 1998 or 2001 anymore and I'm sure any club , GM or scout can obtain information on a player just by doing a Google search...

 

Absolutely. But am I, as a DS, going to think to myself "hmmm... I really need a vice-mediano. Oh hey, let me google Real Salt Lake's roster..."? I don't think so. You pay attention to clubs and leagues and players who are on your radar.

 

Exactly and this brings us back to step number one or at least another point I want to make. We need a trequartista, mediano di spinta, un difensore centrale , a libero or a punta and we would never go after America. They won't go after them because they don't know any or in their minds they already assume or have this idea that they just aren't good enough and they might have a point to a certain extent. I'm of the impression however, that a young player who is capable of playing will learn in any league but how will they ever learn and how will anyone know who they are if they don't give anyone a chance? I remember some of the players who came through our gates back 10 years ago and they called themselves Brazilian and Argentinians, and they were just laughable and many of them tried MLS and Mexico and they failed. I'm sure there are a lot more fine US based players that could easily grow and learn a certain system if they take a chance on them. I mean Clint Dempsey came from the NE Revolution and was given a chance in the EPL and he shined, same with Bradley. Danny Szetela on the other hand played 26 games with Brescia in 2008 -2009 where he made the promotional playoffs, came back to the MLS and couldn't cut it and is now 25 years of age and out of the game. Here is a guy who was starting, more or less in the Serie B and couldn't cut it in America. Therefore, to think or assume that the MLS is this cakewalk league is just ludicrous in my opinion. Now we can all argue that getting a passport is tough and what have you and yes that is true and it is a valid excuse but I just don't and won't subscribe to the theory that Americans can not learn and grow in the Serie A or B if given a chance. Again, if all these other nationalities were given a chance to grow somewhere, come and go from England, France , Portugal or Germany , then I don't see how its humanly impossible for Americans not to do the same or how they can't sign more who can't cut it in the big time, in Italy or wherever.

 

If we plan on creating work class soccer players via the high school and college system we'll always be behind Europe. The training environments on a college campus are conducive to making top class footballers, in particular the limits on practice time, it's not a professional environment. It's directly linked to why so many players coming out of college I feel are technically behind players at the same age in Europe. Players that aren't goalkeepers and have the potential to play in Europe have years of professional training taken away from them so they tend to bloom at a later age.

Also because soccer isn't a major sport in this country most of soccer programs are on shoestring budgets. Quality of coaching cost money, which college teams do not have. Creating a better product of player requires experienced coaches, which you'd be hard pressed to find on the college level. I'm not talking experience in the MLS or college level, rather the highest levels of the game. It's unfair in many ways to compare anyone to Barcelona but Pep Guardiola used to coach the kids at Barca. Who do we have anywhere in our system who was in a youth team at a top club, played for a top club, who later went on to coach a youth team of a top club?

I watch the youth teams compete and want us to do well but honestly I think some American soccer fans are wearing rose tinted spectacles. Going over to the youth section and seeing people boast some of these kids gets a little old. Then when you turn on a match or watch highlights from some of the academy teams, the football played even for that level is basic. Minimal skill, minimal technique, tactically undisciplined, etc. etc. Still there are a couple players within that system who are the exceptionsand everyone focuses on them. To me that's a direct result of coaching and until they start investing money in coaching and fixing the hindrances of youth development players like Dempsey will be rare.

The MLS academies can work. I don't really care about the independent academies beyond the USSF exerting more power over them to keep up the standard of football. The MLS should sever all ties with the college system, they're too chummy for my liking. The Generation Adidas thing where you're guaranteed college education is sort of silly. The MLS is a professional league and it should act like one, they should be in the business of creating professionals. Players that don't want to be professionals can leave and go to college. If MLS academies get up to the standard of European academies players actually who have an interest in making this their career would opt to be trained by the club, because the development would be better and hopefully by that time the MLS could offer competitive contract for young players to that of Europe

Club affiliated academies will always be the best venue to produce talent. Professional clubs are briefed with developing professional players. It's in the clubs best interest to develop these players. College programs aren't required to produce professional athletes, it's the venue where amateurs can hopefully become pro. When clubs take their academies seriously the level of coaching and development is far superior because they can spend money, which the college system can't compete with.

In this way they're also superior to the non-MLS affiliated academies because so many of these teams are just trolling hopeful players for fees. They to imo aren't really in it to develop players. Their goal is to get fees and play in tournaments, some being oversees. The clubs that participate in more tournaments get more kids wanting to join.

College soccer teams try not to make a peep, conserving all their resources and cost cutting so they don't get noticed by the University. Non-revenue generating sports are easy candidates for cuts. So beyond being in a better training environment, being in a stable training environment would be just as attractive to kids who actually want to make football a career.

As I said the MLS academies wont really make a difference until the MLS starts making more money across the board. More investment in coaches, facilities, scouting, tournaments (which is where even clubs like Ajax find players), more lucrative first contracts for pros, etc. The ability to offer kids contracts comparable to Europe without Generation Addidas would really make a difference, players like Josh Gatt, Guido, Bijev, etc. might see staying home as not detrimental to their development, especially if the MLS is investing more in coaching.

Also things like residency would be nice, people say this will never work in the US. The are AAU basketball players all over the country who went to High Schools that they were one of the only "students" in class, it happens all the time. I would never want that but ideally MLS clubs would partner with private schools and have facilities for residency. Clubs like FC Dallas or RSL are already ahead of the curve. The idea of kids preparing for the professional careers pre-18 isn't unheard of in this country.

I just think if we're going to rely on the college system to produce top talent for the MLS and the league will continue to produce average players.

 

SoCalYid: It's interesting to read your and Falvo's posts about development in the US. Just curious if you noticed my question above about Japan. They seem to be producing young players with great technique for a country that's not a traditional football power. What do they do so differently?

 

I have no idea but I agree. The technique from the Japanese players seems to be higher. Then again the J League is very underrated. It's one of the top leagues outside Europe, along with Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Chile, etc. So I would assume the youth development is of a higher standard, but that's just me guessing.

 

MLS academies work if the kids coming out are making a handsome salary but that has not and is not happening currently. They have this Generation Adidas thing in place where kids forgo their Jr & Sr seasons of college turning pro making $100k & 200k but only a select few get that opportunity. The best players still come out of college and MLS rosters are loaded with college talent and any kid on earth, when shown some of these major universities and/or campuses across country would almost be crazy to pass up a free education, play soccer as opposed to giving it all up for the slightest hope he may make it as a pro. For this reason alone I feel this academy thing won't work. I mean sure we all want it but reality is another thing.

Also as you said, in Europe, players the ages of 16-22 are turning pro but not too many top level division 1 professional teams rely on their academy players to form the basis of their clubs. If you find one or two who filters into the A side, its one too many but also as opposed to the USA, they are also worth millions and sold to lower division to make their bones and there is a huge market for these players to be sold to 2nd, 3rd and even 4th tiers. Looking at Roma very few make it to the big time that played in the academy and that is true with other teams as well. Ancelotti at Milan said a few years ago they can't point to the young because everyone wants to win now so top teams don't use their younger academy players. Still who would pay any amount of ridiculous money for a player under the age of 22 in the USA? I know I wouldn't and if I were a player , I certainly wouldn't throw away a free education with a rare chance of making it as a pro.

 

Seems like they put an emphasis on coaching and clubs are required to have teams down to U-13.

 

Don't really watch the J-League. Watched the A-League last year but MLS seemed to play at a lot better level.

 

J-League and A-League--from the little I've seen--couldn't be more opposite in style and J-League seems far superior. I'm not even arguing MLS vs J-League in terms of overall quality, but simply, that their player development seems to be doing exactly what people say is missing in the US: developing a decent amount of young players with technique approaching the level of European and South American youth. Simply watching the Japanese U-23 team in the Olympics makes this clear.

Although, I would argue that Serie A sides may be better pressed to begin scouting J-League if there's a huge blind spot right now or we'll fall behind Bundesliga in that as well.

 

Is that not more indicative or current culture where kids are told if you don't graduate college by your early 20's your life is ruined? I lived in North London, I have several friends who I played football with growing with who made a stab at being a professional player. A few who actually became professionals on some level. The ones who didn't went back to school and became productive members of society. My best buddy was pretty highly rated, didn't work out due to serious injury and he's a lawyer now. I have another friend who played part-time and earned his degree. If you're committed to the game and have faith in your ability you'll take that risk.

I disagree that players of a certain ability would be in awe of a college team over an academy. Once again I'm projecting 10 or so years down the road when hopefully clubs are generating more revenue and can afford better infrastructure and contracts comparable to what 18 year olds earn in Europe. To me it's comparable to the NBA with no 1 and done rule. Are the truly top class players going to pass up the opportunity to become pros because college campuses are nice. Even players that aren't Lebron good still used to go straight to the league.

Kids who actually consider football as a career and not just a fallback are already foregoing college to be pros. A few exceptions aside our best talent aren't bothering with the MLS or College because the development isn't up to standard to which they aspire to. To name a few off the top of my head Joe Gyau (Hoffenhiem), Josh Gatt (Molde), Guido (Xolos), Corona (Xolos), Marc Pelosi (Liverpool), Villyan Bijev (Liverpool) and recently a Galaxy product Marco Rodriguez now of Kaiserslautern. If the academies were better and clubs could offer better contracts more kids would be staying home. Kids who don't have confidence in their ability or potential will still chose the safe option of going to college. I guarantee Junior Flores who's one of our better prospects isn't considering college, and he's not training with an MLS side because he knows they can't offer him a contract he's likely to get when he's 18.

 

Yes but its the culture of the USA. You grow up thinking to go to college, get a degree and make something of yourself. If you are a college athlete, you are even that more fortunate because you go to school play a sport and receive a free education. I mean any kid on earth would relish an opportunity to go to (at least on the West coast) UCLA, Stanford, Santa Barbara, CAL, Santa Clara or USF. Only a fool would pass up that chance.

Kids are the same in Italy to a point. I have all kinds of cousins and friends who played for youth teams but they all went to college because they knew their chances of making it as a pro were very slim and they gave up the game. They don't have the chance to play soccer while going to school, however. From that standpoint, I think Americans are that much more fortunate.

As far as this MLS academy thing working out or not, I was at the Quakes game just last Saturday night and spoke to 5 of their top academy players and each and every one explained, the only positive thing about the whole thing is that they train with the pros. They all said however, they have top colleges looking at them and they will not bypass college for a pro career. This tells you where the state of the academy is at this point in time and the culture of society and/or what kids want. I agree however, it will take 5-10 years to see the fruits of it. I'm not saying it can't or won't ever happen. I mean when you compare the strides American soccer has made from 1990 until now, its an incredible turnaround. When I was sitting in the stands watching amateur players in a meaningless game with only 1000 fans in 1990 at a HS stadium and I see the MLS in its current state , its like night and day. At this point though the academies are all hanging on a wing and a prayer and for now, they really are just not happening and I have my doubts they will. It remains to be seen what will happen in the future but I for one, will believe it when I see it and even then, not sure I'll believe it.

 

Thanks for the reply.
The secret may well reside in diagrams with titles as promising as "Nurturing the People"

 

this is an awesome mls thread !

 

Well Marc Pelosi is from the Bay Area, had offers from all the colleges and chose Liverpool. Seb Lletget is from the Bay Area probably had offers, chose to go to West Ham. The top academies in the world are far superior to any college campus in development for footballers. I went to USC so I'm bias but UCLA has nothing on La Masia for developing footballers. Kids who are serious about becoming footballers wouldn't turn down the opportunity to train at La Masia for UCLA. Sure there are burn outs but for an athlete of that standard the risk is worth taking.

In England you could forgo college for a couple of years and not ruin your life because it's affordable, I wouldn't say Americans are that fortunate. You can even play football in at University in England. So to me for a kid in England who dreams of playing football ball and is in the Arsenal academy, doesn't make it but goes back to school and gets a degree. While he didn't make it at least he had the opportunity at a great club and put himself in the best position to be successful. To me that's worth paying college loans because the reward is one of the greatest things life can offer for a football fan. College Soccer players going to college could effectively mean they don't develop to ever even have an opportunity to play for a club like Arsenal, if you're serious about football that's a far bigger risk imo.

As I said there's always going to be a segment of kids who choose college over pro. I'm sure everyone of those kids if they truly cared about football would drop everything mid exam to go to La Masia if the opportunity presented itself. In general the top rated prospects go pro and they go pro oversees because they pay more and the coaching is better. College football is legitimately one of the biggest sports in this country. What would happen if tomorrow clubs were allowed to sign players out of High School and there was a reserve/youth league in the NFL were players could get paid immediately? Well for one the college football landscape would balance out because the majority of top players would jump. And the college experience for American football players is much better than Soccer players.

The only thing that is restricting the academies from developing talent which you can say is of "European standard" is the money. If clubs could offer contracts even better than Scandinavian leagues on average without having to go through the inane process that Generation Adidas have set up, more kids would stay home. Like I said the good players by in large aren't going to college, especially nowadays with so many scouts over in America. You say you can't see kids risking their livelihood in sake of football, it's already happening. Money would make the Josh Gatt's of the world stay home.

 

Just because they got straight there out of High School doesn't mean they will last and make it big. The only one I really knew who went into an academy at 16 was John O'Brien at Ajax and he played well and lasted then was done by 28. Just wondering has Marc Pelosi ever played a match as of yet? It would be nice to see him succeed. Again just because they claim to be top players, they don't always make it in Europe. Omar Jasseh grew up in Charlton Athletic's youth system and then went to Chelsea and played for their storied club came to to San Jose in 2010-2011 and played 5 games and is gone and is only 19. I saw when the coaches called him over as the Quakes reserves were playing my cousins Cal Bears's soccer and they all told him these kids are your age and they are blowing past you. The next day, he was released from the squad. Therefore, its not an automatic just because these youth players who go over there make it and I have my doubts they are really top players and I have a feeling many that go there, can care less about getting an education. Another one who went over to Sampdoria , Perugia and then Foggia was Gabriel Ferrari. He then came back to the Chicago Fire , played 3 games and is now out of the game at 23. I know was a top youth Ellis McLoughlin went to Hertha Berlin skipping his college years, then came back and trained with the Washington Huskies college soccer team because he was thinking of giving it up and getting a degree. The Quakes gave him a shot and he stuck around for a year and they just cut him last month as is 22 and out of the game. I'm pretty sure he is wishing now he had gone to college. I'm not saying college soccer is the best route for a kid to establish himself but I do think a lot of kids 18-21 need the maturity to grow and experience college life and I also think the facilities are much better on most college campuses than they are on any 2-4th division club across the world. Anyway, time will tell if these academies work and I hope it does work but I won't believe it until I see it.

 

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