This was after a trial with DC United. A discovery claim does not mean the player didn't go on trial with the club in preseason. Most discovery claims are made only after a trial.
MLS is the only soccer league on the planet where collegiate sports are a significant factor in player development. MLS is designed with a high degree of parity in mind, which wouldn't be well served by letting every top collegiate prospect go to the best teams in the league. Which is what would very likely happen if there was no draft. The draft is the fairest way to allocate college players among teams. Maybe you want a system where the best and richest teams scoop up all the talent, but I doubt such a system would be attractive to fans of teams other than LA/NYRB/Seattle and maybe 1-2 more. We've seen here in DC over the last few years how the draft allows a team to rebuild after a few bad seasons.
I don't understand, and have never understood, the idea that the be-all and end-all of soccer development is how many first team minutes you play. Here are your choices as a seventeen-year-old who is a top prospect but not ready to start on an MLS first team. --- 1) College. In college, you will not be permitted to play, train or practice more than 20 hours a week during the season. During the offseason, from January to July, you cannot practice or train more than 8 hours a week, unless you do it on your own. You will be training with a college coach and playing with, and against, players who mostly will never be pros. You will be one of the best players on your team. You will play 15-20 regular season games, plus preseason and playoffs, for a total of 20-25 games. They will be played under NCAA rules rather than FIFA rules and against other college players. You will usually be the best player on the field. 2) Generation Adidas homegrown contract As a homegrown, you will practice full-time, every day, every week, except during the short offseason (November or December through mid-to-late January). You will be training with veteran pros, most of whom are better than you and some of whom may be world-class at your position. You will be working with professional coaches, trainers, and staff. You will play 10 or so reserve league games, plus preseason, Open Cup, CCL, and exhibition games, plus hopefully a few first-team minutes, for a total of 10-20 games. All games will be played under FIFA rules, with extra substitutions in some cases. You will be playing against MLS veterans, other top prospects, and occasionally Central American powerhouses and European legends. --- I don't know how you can look at that choice and say, "College is clearly better for development, because they play more games."
First and foremost, the "myth" about college practice time is exactly that ... a myth. The only thing about college practice time is in "official" capacity. Now let's stop and think about that. I'll give you an example from my experience in football at the DIVISION 3 level ... you know, the level that doesn't even have athletic scholarships in an official capacity: We started in early August so that meant we couldn't have spring ball. So, we had 7-7 sessions with the Texas State guys and some of the Texas Longhorn players up in Austin. Now, nothing could be "official" and all ... but the practice facilities at UT had to be "monitored" now didn't they ? I mean it would just make sense to have someone already affiliated with said field to monitor it now wouldn't it ? There's also nothing against casual conversation between people either. Things can just be left on the bench as well ... like playbooks, practice routines, etc. There's nothing against having stuff posted in the locker room either. There are literally thousands of ways to get around the "hour limit" placed on NCAA athletes because nobody can dictate what they do on their free time.
This post is very comical. Ex football guy at a Division 3 school, writes on soccer? Sounds pretty weird.
What's comical is the idea that NCAA rules are going to prevent athletes from practicing once they reach some arbitrary hours limit.
We our very well aware of the NCAA and the practice rules. What I can not yet put together yet, is what is your fascination with soccer players and how they are developed.
I never said that college is necessarily better, but instead that the draft doesn't appear to be any more irrelevant with the addition of the homegrown program right now. I'm not even sure how you can even dispute that based on the minutes that homegrown players have played on the senior squad. There also hasn't been any evidence that players coming from the homegrown program have a higher success rate than equivalent prospects going to college. Granted it's a new program, but until that data emerges, how you can you even argue one way or the other? Also when did i say they needed senior minutes?? I just know you do need time to play and gain experience against higher levels of competitions. Practice is one thing, but you gotta get experience in game environments as well. You can't just have one or the other and expect the player to develop. And 10-15 games a year, your talking maybe a game a month?? And hopefully you actually play 90 minutes in each of those games (typically you get garbage time minutes). You also have to hope the MLS teams are patient enough to wait for you to be ready for the senior teams. Right now the draft is still an important tool, and while I hope that the homegrown program is successful, i just don't see it right now. Maybe that changes in 5 years, and i'll have no problem admitting im wrong.
So since we have a progression in US from youth club to high school soccer in fall with better level club soccer in spring, then onto college soccer to pro draft...why can't the cream of the crop in college soccer play spring "club" somehow at a higher level like during the high school years? It sounds like the issue being stated is there may be a void in our player development between ages of 17-21 (college years). During high school years, the top players on each high school team will usually just suffer some in the fall with some riff/raff on the rosters and competition, but will be able to develop to full potential and play against the other top players in local region during spring club soccer. So if we can create an "all star 17-21 league" for U.S. players is that what we need to do?
I think his point is that just because there's a cap on how many practice hours a team can have doesn't mean that that alone would limit a player's growth. He's just drawing from his own experiences to prove the point.
but your saying that any player not under contract can just trial with any MLS clubs he wants to. At least this is what I think you are saying. This isn't the case though. Just look at Omar Salgado. He couldn't just trial with any MLS club. He had to first sign with MLS and then enter the MLS draft. I'm sure he would have much rather started his career in his native Texas. Instead at 18 years old he was shipped off to Vancouver.
is your argument that the draft is a barrier to entry into MLS? Because, if so, it didn't seem to prevent Salgado from entering the league.
There is such a league, it turns out. It's called the PDL. Could the PDL use better coaching and a longer season? Sure. But we'd be talking about improving the PDL, not starting a new league.
That kind of thing isn't going to matter to a kid from, say, Georgia or Iowa or Hawaii. They'd have to move far from home no matter what. You're being a moving target here: first talking about players who live far away from the nearest MLS club and then talking about players who want to stay close to home. Players who live near MLS clubs, who want to start their careers close to home, have their local club's academy. For those who don't live near MLS clubs, the draft doesn't do any more than assign them their first trial. Anyone passed over in the draft still has the option to trial anywhere. For that matter, even players picked in the draft often end up trialing elsewhere. The majority of draft picks aren't signed, and you'll routinely find players drafted by one team, cut in preseason, and already trialing with another team before the preseason is over. Salgado's situation was unusual in that he was coming in from a foreign academy, where he started before MLS had an academy system. He's from a state with two MLS teams; if they'd had academies when Salgado joined Chivas Guadalajara, then Salgado might have signed under the homegrown player rule instead. Salgado's problem is one that should only exist in the first few years of the MLS academy system.
.... he'd probably have preferred to start his career in his native Texas than in Romania, Cyprus, Moldova, or some other random country and their academy of Super European Dominance Good Times Football.
The discussion was about NCAA rules regarding limitations on practice time for college sports. He gave an example of how college athletes & programs get around those rules to practice more than "officially" allowed. RIF.
Right there, right above the question. You're arguing that it's indisputable that homegrown players aren't doing better than college players, because they're not playing minutes on the senior squad. Between the start of preseason in January or February and the start of the playoffs in the fall, most homegrowns will probably see 10-15 games between preseason, the Reserve League, and occasional first-team minutes. Would it be better if they got more games? Probably. On the other hand, the college schedule isn't ideal either: two games a week for three months, then no games for nine months. I suspect a game a month is better for overall player development. And that's without considering that MLS homegrowns (1) practice with better players, and (2) don't have to train on their own or pretend they aren't practicing for most of the year. Homegrowns, in general, are on four-year, guaranteed, cap-exempt Generation Adidas contracts. It's not hard for a team to be patient when you're not costing them anything but the cost of your practice jersey. The first significant homegrown class is the class of 2010, when MLS teams signed 17 homegrowns. Out of that 17, so far, we've seen: Andy Najar Juan Agudelo Doneil Henry Diego Fagundez Ethan White Most of the rest are 21 or younger and could still develop into good players. That's already at least as good a hit rate as most MLS draft years. And at that point, most MLS academies had only been around for a few years; as the academies develop, the homegrowns will get better and the draft ranks will get thinner.
Let's compare: 2010 SuperDraft Danny Mwanga Ike Opara Tony Tchani Teal Bunbury Zack Lloyd Amobi Okugo Jack McIearney Dilly Duka Blair Gavin Bright Dike David Estrada Michael Stephens That's just in the first round ... didn't bother looking at the other 3. 2011 Darlington Nagbe Perry Kitchen Zac MacMath A.J. Soares Kofi Sarkodie Jalil Anibaba C.J. Sapong Will Bruin Again, just the first round. 2012 Kelyn Rowe Darren Mattocks Nick DeLeon Austin Berry Matt Hedges Tony Cascio Hunter Jumper Ryan Meara Luis Silva ..... should I continue ?
How does the PDL operate? Do the players pay to join this elite group or do the players get paid? How is this league supported financially? That is the problem I see with anything other than college as the next tier just below MLS in the US. There isn't enough revenue able to sustain a minor league or 2nd tier below pro. If a 18 year old kid is really highly skilled at soccer but no brains or family funding to go to college...where do they play to progress towards pro? There can't be any sort of minor league soccer in us that can pay a player enough to live on. It would have to be a part time gig while they work another job, live with parents or go to community college (or serve military time). Soccer isn't baseball where a minor league is a medium size city can support the finances of the players.
How do players in the lower levels in England get by ? How does it work for the 18yr old in various European countries ?
Let's take this one, as closer in age to the 2010 homegrowns: Which of these are you saying are on the level of the players I listed--the Agudelos and Najars? How many national team caps are on that list? The younger class of 2010 homegrowns have 19 between 3 players (and likely more to come). Hunter Jumper is the most telling name here: a promising player who projects to be a starter at some point, but is on the bench working on his game right now. Jack McBean is a homegrown in the same position. The difference is, Jumper is 23 and McBean is 17. So, even including Jumper, the percentages between the 2010 homegrowns (5 starters out of 17) and the 2012 draft class (8 starters out of 38) are about even. Now look at how many of the players on your list would have been homegrowns if the program had been around before they went to college or started with a youth NT. Almost certainly Rowe and Silva, possibly Berry, Jumper, and Meara as well.
Erm ... Berry just won the ROTY. DeLeon is on par with Najar (this season at least, which is all we have to go by for DeLeon). But let's look at who you named again: Andy Najar Juan Agudelo Doneil Henry Diego Fagundez Ethan White Najar and Agudelo aside ... what exactly have the others done ? Ethan White didn't even play this last year and was loaned to Richmond. Fagundez got 8 starts this year and 6 of his appearances were 10 mins or less. I like how you tried to be selective there to fit your point. That list from the 2012 draft was only selected ones from the entire thing. I didn't even mention Andrew Wenger, Casey Townsend, Raymon Gaddis, or Sebastian Velasquez. Even Baptiste got starts. Of course, you also mentioned "most draft classes" yet had to try and single ONE out for your viewpoint ... odd eh ? I don't need to imagine anything about who might have been a HG. That isn't the discussion. It's about the HG vs the Draft.
So have plenty of the other homegrowns; Zach Pfeffer, Nicholas Lindsay, even Ruben Luna, who was later released by Dallas. I listed the ones who have already shown something special. You're free to disagree, of course...but I think Doneil Henry earning a national team cap at 19 is more impressive than Hunter Jumper getting occasional starts for the Fire at age 23. The homegrowns are mostly kids who would have been in the 2013 or 2014 draft, or even later. Does it really make sense to compare them to players like Bright Dike, who are still fighting for minutes and getting sent to the minors at age 25? This is probably part of the difference we're having. I may be overrating the potential of players like Henry. You may be overrating the ceiling of players like Opara. But ask a coach if he'd rather have a 19-year-old with potential or a 24-year-old with potential. Even so...you've listed 12 out of 64 players for 2010 (including marginal players like Mwanga, Opara, and Estrada) and 8 out of 54 for 2011. Of course, you tried to narrow it down to just the best players in the pool (the first round)...odd, eh? And recognizing that the homegrown rules are going to apply to more and more players as they reach younger age cohorts is part of that discussion. The first draft class we'll be able to compare, one on one, to the homegrowns will probably be the class of 2014 or 2015. There have only been a couple of 1990s and just one or two older players signed as homegrowns total. Let the collge 1991s and 1992s come out and we'll see how they fare playing in MLS against the homegrown 1991s and 1992s. I think the homegrowns will hold their own.
The relegation league in England (sorry forgot the name of the tier down from EPL), has enough fan support and revenue from those towns to pay the players an ok wage I'd assume. Soccer in England has fan support like Baseball in US. US soccer I just don't think could pay a decent full-time wage for a 2nd tier. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have doubts.