The Klinsmann Coaching Thread v.3 N&A Edition [R]

Misleading? How so?

 

I do not recall that.

 

He spends more time on the ground than all of our other players combined

 

Not surprising, considering it's been 2.5 years...

 

For one thing, he comes closest to Jones' 1v1 defending ability so he could sub in for Jones who tires anyway and will be playing in heat. Cameron, gonzo, besler, fab, bradley, dempsey, donovan customarily go 90'

He plays well as a cb shield in tandem with Bradley, vide Mexico, or simply as a 3rd cb.

I like that he will be 28yrs3mos old in Brazil.

 

I think Jones is a good player but this really drives me crazy about his game. How the heck can you provide cover for our inadequate CB's when you go to ground when there is contact and the opponent goes right by you with the ball. It is a dangerous game for a DM to take himself out of the play hoping to get a foul called by the ref. Busquets can do it but his supporting cast and scorelines that he deals with are a little different. Dempsey does the same thing which I also find annoying but at least it is upfield with less potential for disaster.

There was one point during the Ukraine match where both Dempsey and Jones were lying on the ground looking for fouls with the play going on and I'm thinking, "A spine! A spine! My kingdom for a spine!" Don't ask me why I thought this as I don't have a kingdom to give. Maybe the USMNT spine reminded me of RIII. Anyway, I fear for my TV if I see the same thing happen in Brazil.

 

Misleading in the same way that the way you quoted truncated my post was misleading.

Tell us where you got your stats, and lay out Edu's WCQ games/minites played in some coherent fashion, so we can have a real conversation.

 

So not really "misleading" but maybe a bit simplistic and lacking context. Fair enough

6/8/12 v. Antigua, started, +2 GD
6/12/12 v. Guatemala, started, 0 GD
9/7/12 v. Jamaica, off 73, -1 GD
9/11/12 v. Jamaica, on 72, 0 GD (US goal was scored in 55th minute)
10/16/12 v. Guatemala, on 78, 0 GD
2/6/13 v. Honduras, on 58, -1 GD
3/22/13 v. Costa Rica, on 83, 0 GD
3/26/13 v. Mexico, started, 0 GD

412 minutes, 0 GD.

 

Yup.

The implication of your prior posts was that the team played significantly better without Edu. The context is that Edu played a lot while JK was muddling around with 3 DM formations and Edu played a lot before Altidore had his excellent run of scoring form in 2013. If Edu was responsible for the US's mediocre play and Jozy's scoring slump in 2012, then you might have a point. Otherwise, not so much.

 

No, my initial post was responding to a silly, hyperbolic statement made by Sam Hamwich (in which he suggested the team played significantly better with Edu), no more, no less.

And frankly, while there were a lot of reasons for our poor play early in qualifying, I think that poor lineup choices played a significant part (and one of those poor choices was an over reliance on Edu).

 

Sam is prone to hyperbole, no doubt, but the statement you replied to was Sam's projection that Edu would play well in some future games, presumably the World Cup. You then tried to use simplistic stats with no context to show that in the past the US did better without Edu.

You misunderstood Sam's point, and even if you hadn't, the context still matters.

 

No, I didn't misunderstand him. I was really responding to this bit (in which Sam projects that the team would perform better based on Edu's past performances):

"every player gets better because they know they have him back regulating."

 

Mathewssf at theshinguardian was taken with Edu's play in his column Openers: MLS Week one and says in comments section

"Chara and Johnson got worked by Nogueira and Edu. I was sitting there in shock"

http://theshinguardian.com/2014/03/09/openers-mls-week-one/#comments

 

With Edu we simply add a player with no value in possession.
Bradley needs multiple outlets in midfield. Edu is a very poor outlet.

If we want to play bunker ball then I can see how Edu could work.

 

This list of games provides a better starting point for conversation, so thanks for doing that. I won't repeat what Mr. Martin said, but I agree with his response regarding context.

Klinsmann knows we have to play Ghana, Portugal and Germany in Brasil - three heavyweight opponents - before we get a breather* in the Round of 16 (after which the heavy lifting will resume). It doesn't take much imagination to see how Edu might be helpful in the three group matches.

I think a healthy, in-form Edu will get a very serious look from Klinsmann in May, and I would like to see Edu v Mexico next month (to see where he - take your pick - stands).

*

 

That's why I think old Mr. Dreads could make it.

 

It doesn't? He might be useful as a late game defensive sub, if by some chance, we actually have a lead in any of the group stage matches, though I think there are better options. Other than that, I can't think of what he would add to the squad.

With that being said, I agree that he will get a serious look from JK, as JK does have a soft spot for him (in fact, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that he makes the 23).

 

Which is why we may not see Edu against Ghana until late. The way they line up we can advance down the pitch but the passes and clearances have to be precise and that is not Edu's strength. Closing down space against Ronaldo in our own end is another matter.

 

Ahah! you come out of the woodwork for an Edu comment.

I will agree that he is a human wasteland offensively. He has regressed. He used to have neat feet and a quick release. No more.

But he is a defensive force.

 

2010 World Cup. US with Edu: 3 goals for 1 against. without Edu: 2 goal for 4 against.

I'm not even strongly in favor his making the team. He can be effective as a starter in Klinsmann's system playing in Bradley's role which is to say Mo wouldn't be starting with MB in there. As an 8 he'd make a good sub.

 

Well he was ace against Scotland in that role.

 

As an 8, I can see why coach likes him. He is a ball winner, good lungs, good positioning, but he doesnt 'play the next move' he wins it, then like a gerbil at the top of the roundy circle, he forgets himself, then keeps on. He needs to have that next play choreographed in his head. Then he would be an effective 8, otherwise, I would put him as 6 and say: stay home 95% of the time? Don't you love your home?

Spray the ball wide, get it to your teammate that has no pressure. I trust Edu far more than Jones to play the 6. Beckermann is a physical liability. Much like Zusi most of the time. And Evans.

 

Biggest mistake of Bob Bradley's tenure with the USMNT was starting a clearly out of form Ricardo Clark over Edu against Ghana. Four year later our CM player pool has thankfully improved to the point that Edu really shouldn't even be in the conversation.

 

Too bad our national team coach sees it differently (or at all).

 

Clark wasn't out of form. He was a poor match-up against power teams like Ghana and England(also had a crap match in a friendly at England). He played well against teams like Brasil, Spain, and against sides in the Copa America.

Edu is a different type of player, and Klinsmann is running a different type of system. If there's room for Diskerud, Feilhaber, Beckerman, Williams, and Kljestan to be getting caps then, yeah, JK can give Edu a holler.

He played well against Ghana. He passed decently enough completing 69% of passes compared to Bradley's 68. He didn't lose the ball(1 for RC 0 for MB). Actually laid in a tackle winning the ball(o for RC 0 for MB). Got forward with 7 deliver/solo runs into the attacking 3rd compared to MB's 8.

Edu teamed well with Beckerman against France and with Bradley against Italy. So long as he's used in the manner stated he should be fine. We're not outmanning any team in Group G. The matchups and tactics better be correct or the blowouts and 'mistakes' will be forthcoming.

Not suggesting any cm beyond Jones and Bradley is a must.