I think you are being a bit harsh. Cerezo's Kim is also a pretty decent keeper ( better than Kato, who everyone seems to love. both are erratic though). And Consadole's Lee also got great potential, but we won't be seeing much of that now that he's long-term injured. Of course, REALLY good goalkeepers are harder to find, and only Sugeno and maybe Vegalta's Hayashi comes under that category now. But with lots of young, up-and-coming GK's playing regularly now I hope and believe that number will increase. And veterans like Narazaki and Sogahata are also doing quite well still, so it's not that bad. You see poor goalies in PL as well.
lol, Kim better than Kato The man who kept Reds in J1, the keeper of one of the most solid teams in the back in the entire league? Kim is fack-up prone keeper who ruins everything good with his good performances with stupid mistakes which are later posted on YT and various video sites in the compilations of the funniest interventions. Seriously - since Kato entered the Red's gate the only major mistake he made was that FK from 40 meters against Shimizu last year. But he learned that lesson well and now he's boss when it comes to wet pitch. Not to mention how many points he saved for the team with his great interventions in absolutely hopeless situations... But when you go deeper into J2... That's where shows in the gate begins!!!
I usually agree with you Majster, but not on this. Of course I rate Kato as a good goalkeeper as well, but it seems everyone have forgotten what Kim did for Cerezo in 2010. Having the 2nd best defensive record in the league ( only beaten by Kashima by 1 goal) in his first year in J1 playing for one of the MOST offensive-minded teams in the league is a far greater achievement than what Kato did for Urawa last season. And Kim have already debuted for South Korea, while Kato isnt even anywhere near a place in Zaccheroni's team at the moment. This season both Kato and Kim have overall been good I think. It's not in defence Cerezo have had the biggest problems. Kato have also done a good job, but with players like Abe and Makino there to help him out he surely got a much easier job than what Kim does ( who has to rely on Kota Fujimoto for assistance most of the time). Either way both goalkeepers have still their best years ahead of them, and I'm sure they will play a prominent role in the future as well. Kim might be more error-prone yes, but he's much younger than Kato and the mistakes should be getting fewer and fewer.
One thing about 2010 Cerezo's goalkeppers: Kim played 19 games, Matsui had 15 appearances as a starter. In those games Cerezo lost 19 goals. Also, keep in mind that keeper is only one chain in the whole defense line string of the team. Kato's debut was last year, he's basically playing his second season on professional level. Now Urawa is sitting on high position in the table so they are losing even less goals. Try to analyse the sata from theses two links below: http://www.j-league.or.jp/data/view.php?d=j1total&t=counting&y=2011 http://www.j-league.or.jp/data/view.php?d=j1total&t=counting&y=2012 Now use some 'Excell magic' and try to more or less evaluate every team's defensive ability by comparing the 'lost goals' column with 'shots against' one. Fast analysis of the data which I made will tell you who's the best keeper in Japan this season so far - it's Kato!!! He's average is 13,92 shots per goal this season. The second one is Sagan's Akahoshi with 11,39 shots per goal. That's an outstanding difference of nearly 3 shots in the game!!! Kim's average is now 7,23. Try to tell me now that KJH>Kato. The third place in the ranking belongs to Yokohama's Iikura with 10,50 average and the last one on the list this season with shots/lost goals ratio above 10. The only reason why he's not in NT is that he debuted LAST year and GK coach of NT already has got his favourites on that position (or I should rather say second, and third post - Eiji is irreplaceable right now).
haha, love how everybody here has a different opinion on this matter Well, I'm out of this Kato-Kim debate at least since I consider both of them not good GKs, but this is still Jubilo's thread, we should stop or open another topic
I love how everybody have different opinion on this matter after I posted the stats for this season. Kato IS the best keeper in Japan ATM. You measure how good a keeper is with number of saved balls, not number of articles in the press praising one of them...
Those stats don't mean that much, Majster. They don't tell you how these shots were nor how the saves are (if you got the ball, or if you barely saved it and then you were lucky defender is there to help you clean it). To judge a GK you have to observe his sense of position, how he deals when he has to go outside\on 1to1, on corners, how his saves are made, etc For example, in yesterday's match Germany made some shots on goal at Italy, but most of them were reckless ones from outside the penalty area, because Italy's defense was working very well and often made the german players shoot from bad positions. Would we say that Buffon was amazing yesterday? Nah, he even got a big risk on a corner, he did simply ok yesterday
Still, and sorry to sound rude, considering Kato as a below average GK proves you didn't watch him enough.
It could be, I'll make sure to watch him again, but I surely thought he was pathetic in the last match of the last season.
That season for Urawa ended one week before the last game when Reds saved their place in J1. I doubt they even prepared like they usually did before the game. The whole team was atrocious that day. Kashiwa had 26 shots - Reds only 5... But if numbers won't change your mind then there's nothing more I could do.
yes, he was ok today, except for that clumsy save that allowed Cerezo's goal and yes good job Jubilo stayin high
did u see Cerezos goal? a truly GREAT GK would have saved that. Kim didnt make any similar "mistakes" as far as I could see. but that aside, we are allowed to have different opinions. And more importantly, we should respect other persons opinions without sounding like a certain other (former?) member on this board.
Not also that with an average GK Reds would have lost by 2-3 goals margin. He wasn't out of position, he didn't see the ball until it got past Kempes. He even saved in almost the same situation when he was 1 on 1 with Bando earlier. That game for me was an exact copy of Germany vs Italy clash during Euro's with Italy (Reds) who couldn't make a decissive blow to seal the game earlier (Ranko...). Remember how the keeper of Buffon class (on of two best in the world right now) was angry at his team mates and said that if there were few minutes more they would lost the game without a doubt? Heck, he knows football and I believe in what he's saying.
Interesting stats, but as Dax said they dont necessarily mean that much. Is it a coincidence that it is the goalkeepers of 2 of the most defensive-minded teams in the league that has saved the most shots? I would think not. And that Akahoshi, who by many are regarded as the by far weakest starting GK in the league is in 2nd place of that list underlines my point. but either, statistics are always interesting, but as with everything, it depends on how u read it. About Cerezo back in 2010, Matsui also played a big number of games yeah, but only due to suspensions and injuries to Kim. And you say that the keeper is only one part of the defensive chain, which was my point in my former post as well. Kim ( or Matsui) played in front of Takahashi, Moniwa, Uemoto and Omata/Maruhashi. Is that in any way better than playing in front of Makino, Tsuboi and Nagata as well as having Abe in the DM position? The answer to that is probably different depending on who u ask, and I think one can say the same about all the other things we have written here. So we cant really analyze who is the better GK on the little amount of data we got. Which means, it comes down to personal opinion and taste.
Yeah, by all means, Im not saying Kato played a bad game. But he was partly at fault for that goal. But by saving several other nice opportunities he kind of made amends for it. But Kim also came up with some nice saves, and more importantly he didnt make any mistakes ( which I agree, that he tends to have a lot more of than Kato).
You know, I prefer keepers who save and forwards who score and not 'look good' on the pitch. The number of saved shots stats isn't a simple stats for a keeper - that measures how good he is. That's his work. The more you save, the better you are. I always laugh at others who are saying 'look how good he is post playing, how strong he is on his legs!' and later I ask them 'how many did he score?' and that's enough to end the discussion. I have never read about Akahoshi that he's bad keeper. I'll once again use Buffon as a reference. Remember how shaky he was in the beginning of the game against Germany? That he made identical mistake as Kato but the only difference was that it didn't end up with a goal in early minutes... Now tell me that he's bad, bad and once again bad.
early in the game Kim tried to catch the ball from shot, but the ball slipped through on that wet pitch and went out for a corner other times that ball might go in if it goes really wrong, here Cerezo and Kim were lucky, so... maybe that was his only mistake last Saturday but not punished
As far as I remember, both Soccer Magazine and Weekly Soccer Digest gave Sagan the worst rating when it came to GK ( I can doublecheck that when I get back to Sweden). Even Muro, who have been injured for the entire season, is or atleast were regarded as a better keeper than Akahoshi when he was injury-free.