The Jesus Factor

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Matrim55, May 21, 2004.

  1. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    i have yet to get it to work - it loads and buffers... then nothing - anybody else having this trouble?
     
  2. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Billy Graham has met with and been a "spiritual advisor" to every President since Eisenhower...
    He's been closer to some than others, but he has been as close to a national church figurehead (Pope, Archbishop, Head Pastor) as the USA has ever had.

    Religion and politics have always mixed, despite efforts to separate them. I doubt that will change in the near future, too many of the issues facing America are tied in with morality and people generally default to their religious beliefs when trying to settle to complex issues of abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage or even taxes (Give unto Caesar...).
     
  3. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Well, Mike, Jewish charities have been around for a very long time, so I think that goes wide of the mark. I don't really care about this issue too much, but don't you think its just a bit strange that al the faith based charities went to Christian organizations? In Oklahoma, that makes sense. I don't know a single Jew from Oklahoma. But you have to figure, wouldn't a couple of NYC groups asked for grants? I gotta say, quite a few of those are for members of the tribe.

    But Jesse Jackson came so close before Jaimietown sank him.

    So are you saying you think the Bush twins THINK they go to Canada for abortions every year? ;)

    THAT I agree with. People vote for those similar to them. Always do.

    Actually, I think you're quite wrong on this one. I believe the French have had a Jewish PM, and I know the Swiss have had a Jewish Prime Minister. (Of all people...) Hell, going all the way back to Disraeli, who may have been Christian, but who made little secret of his Jewish roots, and bragged about it.
    I think that Jews have a better chance in Europe BECAUSE its more secular. Although that's becoming less true in some countries, like France, due to the influx of Muslims. The current dislike of Israel doesn't help. But it certainly is possible.

    Bit too late to set up an immigration bureau now, dontcha think?
     
  4. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he was allowed to run under the new rules, Tariq Aziz surely could be president of Iraq. He is a christian.
     
  5. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you could call Bush the Elder's administration "moderate". Relative to Bush the Younger's, perhaps, but not overall. Elder, after all, thought that atheists should have their citizenships revoked.
     
  6. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Which wasn't my argument. Just because something is done poorly, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done at all.

    You're a shiksa, Mike. What do you expect?
    (I'm badly blanking on the real word for a male shiksa. D'oh!)

    Yes, I'll have to speak to the Elders about this. But in all seriousness, that statistic is pretty weird.

    Duh.

    That's nice. Buying American.

    Well, in Switzerland it was fairly recent (as of 2000, as I recall), and I know there are some relatively high ranking Jews in Europe. Like the chairman of Arsenal.

    I think your point is a bit off the mark even looking into the future, because the thing that makes Jews less electable these days is Israel, which is an external factor. I think a Jew could still be elected in France, for instance, if he plays up how secular he is. Less likely now, but possible.
     
  7. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Well, yeah. Even though she did decline the post, Sonia Gandhi was indeed elected prime minister. And while never elected, the spiritual father of modern India is about as Christian as one can get.

    Japanese voters don't care about religion, and more importantly, they have no idea. There's Shinto but it's more a tradition than a religion anyway, and while the overwhelming majority of the country is both Shinto and Buddhist, neither involved evanglism nor does it directly influence policy, so the faith of the prime minister is pretty much irrelevant.
     
  8. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    goy?
     
  9. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    No, goy is different. Goy is just a general term we use to designate the unclean. Shiksa is more specific - someone who's dating/married to a Jew that isn't Jewish herself.
     
  10. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite

    Fair enough. As a law talking guy, I have my reservation about the legality of faith based initiatives, but I hardly think they're a BAD thing.


    That'd make for an interesting upbringing.


    That we do. Of course, very many Jews are secular, since most Western Jews tend to regard Judaism as an ethnicity rather than a religion. Most of my friends who're Jewish don't really practice.

    Depends on the person. I think what made Lieberman palatable to many people is that he was observant. How well a secular Jew would do (someone, like, say, Dean) in a national election........is a different story. I couldn't see it in the US, although I could other places.
    I've always felt that although much of the US isn't necessarily outwardly religious (unlike the evangelicals) they at least prefer the candidate they're voting for believes in God.
     
  11. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody in America would vote for that pinko bleeding heart Jesus

    Post made more accurate.
     
  12. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    ??? There is nothing perjorative about "goy" (unlike shkutz or shiksa [​IMG])

    Goy means nation in Hebrew, by extension it became foreigner (as in, a person from another nation). Unclean is ta'me [​IMG]
     
  13. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    'twas a joke Ben. Goy just means gentile.
     
  14. dearprudence

    dearprudence Member

    Nov 1, 2000
    Chi-town
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Name calling is so third grade. Obviously, this is the first post you've ever read of mine, or you would know better.

    When did you work for the White House? Run for office? Learn how to read unskewedstatistics and interpret what you're up against? Because if you can't tell who your opponent is, you certainly can't win an election! And if I'm so bigoted, do you want to explain that to my multi-racial cousins? My Jewish cousins? My atheist cousins? Because they certainly don't see it that way.

    As to Sonia Gandhi & the Iraqi example given, I admit that I hadn't known that either was a Christian. I also don't know if they are evangelical or not, since there seems to be such a division about that in this thread.

    All I stated was the obvious, that most Americans will vote for what (notice I didn't say who, I said "what") they know, not diversity.

    As for England, their Christian base is deteriorating rapidly. I think that evangelical Christians are less than 10% - a lot of the English will state that they're nominally C of E or Roman Catholic, but they're not the Christians that you want on a stick. Oops! My bad! You are not bigoted against evangelical Christians, are you? But then again, you probably don't know that the true evangelical Christian is most certainly not anti-Semetic, either.

    There are some really good remarks about faith-based initiatives. Frankly, I don't care where a good daycare, school lunch program, or other much needed charity is held, so long as it gets done. When last I checked, no one's been forced to put their child in a religious institution to receive these initiatives; it's the church/temple/mosque that has traditionally supplied this need without help from the government who now would like to get help, just like the other programs. It's like the public school busses also providing rides to parochial schools, IMHO.
     
  15. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    finally saw this show, definitely a few bone chilling moments in there
     

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