The individual strengths and weaknesses of Germany's national players?

Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by Kampfschwein, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Kampfschwein Member

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    Germany
    I'm curious how you assess the various national players' (and prospective ones') skills (pace, off-the-ball, etcetc). Anyone wanna offer his insights?
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  2. ForeverRed Moderator

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Location:
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    Germany
    Well let's start with who in particular you're thinking of.
  3. Cris 09 Trololololo

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
    Ok, I'll start;





    Christian Lell.
  4. poorvi Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Location:
    Bombay
    Country:
    Germany
    Let me have a go

    Per Mertesacker

    Positives:
    Clean tackler. Wins the ball in most duels and doesn't concede free kicks.
    Strong aerially
    Good positioning sense and intercepts passes anticipating the situation quite well
    Veteran at an early age. Lots of time for improvement

    Negatives:
    Too slow.
    As of late he's been playing half heartedly. At least he was yesterday
    Shorter guys with a low centre of gravity can get the better of him very easily
    Doesn't play the offside trap too well
  5. Equilibrium Member+

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Location:
    None of your busines
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    Germany
    I'll offer the negatives, others can focus on the positives. I'll focus from the biggest issues to the smaller ones by turn.

    Mertesacker - I wouldn't even have him as #1 CB off the bench, my rating for him drastically lowers every single year. I'm fine with the fact that he's incredibly slow, but he has to make up for it with positioning. The truth is he doesn't and it's a total myth that he's great "positionally", I think he's awful there as well as he gets caught out of position many times & has random brain farts throughout games. Bremen are seeing this season that their best defender by far is Naldo, he went missing for most of the season and their crap defense completely self-destructed. For someone who has pace to have problems and not notice runs unlike others, he can't make up for it with speed. He's a clean tackler and a great ariel defensve option, however he is just blatantly bad for years now. Even in the World Cup, he was awful in the group stages.. had 2 very good games in 2 matches we completely dominated vs England & Argentina and average vs Spain. I say average because while he did his defensive duties, his along with Freidrich's passing was awful and one of the reasons the team couldn't build up too many attacks.

    Aogo - This player shouldn't be in the team whatsoever. I have not an ounce of focking clue what Loew sees in him. Just blatantly awful positioning and unlike Merte he hasn't been in the team for years.. he should just be kicked out asap.

    Khedira - Good player.. that is the problem. There is nothing great about him bar his pace. He is a great example of someone who has benefitted from the new youth system in Germany, he fits the one touch system and knows it by heart since he was raised by it, he just doesn't have the talent to utilize it best. In games we struggle, I never think of Khedira to be the one to help Germany.. actually that's where he plays the great Houdini act and dissapears. Great squad player, not good enough to start.

    Potentially Klose - He's great and does everything however he looked last match out of gas, which is frankly embarrassing considering he hasn't even played for 3 months. We already have Podolski who doesn't run and pressure teams as much as he should, the striker needs to do this. Anyways I say potential because he might still be option #1 in 2012, though it's a bit debatable now definitely.

    Too much experimenting - Loew I think needs to get a basic XI now and bar few examples, needs to focus on that team. Too much shuffling around, players need more chemistry together. I can imagine in 12 if the team doesn't win, the excuse of they're still growing etc etc.. That's a bunch of crap, the team is ready now and needs to get refined. Bar Hummels and anyone but Aogo right now in the starting XI, I don't see a change. If others are so good, let them prove it in the little minutes they have or show up in the Bundesliga for more than half a season/ full year. Even though we all know that as soon as someone has a great few weeks/months, the Kirsten disease spreads in here like wildfire and they are the next legends.
  6. Cris 09 Trololololo

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
    Too much experimenting? It is obvious Loew has his starting 11 bar the LB position. It is also obvious that he has mixed feelings on who the two CB should be. That is totally normal. I do not mind having Loew explore all the best options to make sure we have great depth on the bench.

    There are many players that deserves the call up to Germany to see how they may perform, and if it gives Germany a better Plan B when we need to keep a lead or are behind, I'm all for finding additional firepower.

    We are a year and a half from the Euro's. If Loew wants to experiment, now is the time.
  7. SirManchester Member+

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Country:
    Germany
    absolutely.

    if anything he is being too conservative.
  8. scorpio81 Member

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Location:
    London
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    Germany
  9. Cris 09 Trololololo

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
  10. scorpio81 Member

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Location:
    London
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    Germany
    sort by the TS (Top Speed) column, and youll see Merte alongside Wayne Rooney at 28.35 km/h and above Ronaldo at 28.31 km/h...
  11. Cris 09 Trololololo

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
    Flashsacker

    Wow...Go Merte!!!!

    Also known as...

    [IMG]





    or...

    Flashsacker
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  12. ForeverRed Moderator

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Location:
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    Germany
    There is still a big difference between pure speed with ball, without ball and speed of thought in a match. Merte has clearly been struggling in the last couple of years and hasn't progressed much as a player.
  13. SirManchester Member+

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Country:
    Germany
    Also, speed on the turn which has been one of his biggest flaws. Last night's goal was a perfect example. He is the worst possibly choice to have against technical players or those who just accelerate past him.
  14. poorvi Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Location:
    Bombay
    Country:
    Germany
    Interesting find. Lays to rest the theory that Merte can't move fast.

    Among CBs, Merte was the second 'fastest' during the last WC. Only Mensah was better. But hey, this is top speed. Merte can have a top speed while having a very low/medium average speed. Zambrotta, whom I thought was the sluggishness personified (in WC 2010) has a better 'top speed' than Merte.

    Lets just say that logically speaking, if Merte had to reach his top speed, it would be easier to do that without the ball at his feet than with the ball at his feet. High chances are that he was chasing/ back tracking to tackle/mark an opposing forward. Of all of Germany's opponents only Bret Holman, Wayne Rooney, Kevin Prince, Asamoah Gyan and Messi have higher top speeds. Something doesn't seem right.

    Edit: ^^^^ Nevermind the last para.
  15. CanStriker Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2010
    I agree with the first paragraph. Loew is still sorting that back end, but Eq touched on this as well. As for the rest, I am on the conservative side. We need players who are at their best right now, and we need them to get to know each other. Just look at the chemistry the Spanish have built up, it really is quite incredible.
  16. CanStriker Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Out of curiosity, who would you have start over Khedira?
  17. Cris 09 Trololololo

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
    Spain is also introducing younger talent as well.
  18. odd1234 Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    At the world cup Merte was exceptionally sound, he made mistakes - but so does any defender. He is exceptional in the air and very powerful. Not to mention, he was a brick whenever argentina sought to go on the attack. His passing is not exceptional, but then again even Ferdinand or Terry makes mistakes (and much harsher ones at that).



    I am not sure if kicked out is the right word here, Germany have yet to find a reliable fullback like Lahm. Aogo is not the best option, and the fact that he does play left back is worrying to say the least, he is not a good offensive option and his position on the left is quite worrying sometimes.

    Actually, defensively he is terrific which is why Madrid spent all that money on him.



  19. F96 Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    Skåne
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Ok, let's do this for our potential CB options.

    Badstuber
    Hummels
    Boateng
    Höwedes
    Friedrich
    Mertesacker
    Toprak (just because :D)

    How would you rate each of them in these categories with the kicker rating system:

    * build-up play
    * postitioning
    * headers
    * one-on-one duels
    * quickness
    * ability to read the game
    * mobility

    After the comments about how Hummels need to keep the ball low and not play high balls to the front all the time I think we might need Özil-like videos that show every single touch he has in a game as well. :D

    We often only see what we want to see. We make players we don't like worse than they are and vice-versa.
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  20. Cris 09 Trololololo

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
    Damn, girl...I was so going to suggest that!!! ;)
  21. deleted Member

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
    I think Hummels took one look around him and thought "Damn, who is this guy playing next to Sven today, I better hit it long for our towering targetmen like Mario to control, because, after all that must be the reason Herr Loew played them, right? Anyway, there's a first time for everything I suppose, I hope I just get this shot over the halfway line..."
  22. ForeverRed Moderator

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Location:
    NYC
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    Germany
    I don't think there is any question as to who is on top on this list if you consider everything you listed. Hummels really is the most complete German CB and just needs time in the NT setup which includes the entire first team around him and consistent playing time like most others who are now first teamers.

    Mertesacker's weakness is his lack of mobility and his build up play, which are crucial not only to the way Germany plays but also in the way we need to defend within this system. Unfortunately he hasn't improved much in these areas and has actually regressed.

    Badstuber is a more upgraded version of Mertesacker to me, he's slightly faster, better on the ball and his passing range is pretty good. His positioning and reading of the game is questionable however but he is young and also needs time to develop and refine his game. Not ready to give up on him yet for sure.

    Höwedes is the most consistent defender next to Hummels and while he doesn't have the build up play to match his friend he does read the game well and has good positioning. Theoretically he would be the best partner for a mobile technical player like Hummels. More importantly, he is always a danger in the air similar to Hummels.

    Boateng I feel has struggled as of late, due to injury and the lack of playing time as well as where he has been used. He needs consistent playing time in the center because he has the strength, pace and technical skills to be a really effective all around defender. I feel he is versatile enough to be partnered with any other choice we have back there.

    Friedrich reads the game well but is slowing in pace and is obviously getting up there in age. I still think he can be valuable to the NT but ideally he should slowly be phased out to bleed others in. He would be great experience to have around for the younger players.

    As for Toprak, I like what I've seen from him since he came back from that awful injury. Had some poor moments but in the context of where he plays that's understandable. Would be interesting if he made that move to Leverkusen next season.
  23. KFofB Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Location:
    Mittelfeld
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    United States
  24. KFofB Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Location:
    Mittelfeld
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    United States
    Friedrich was by far the best defender at the WC.
  25. deleted Member

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Country:
    Germany
    I liked the Laudrup move he did during the England (or argentina?) game bringing the ball up from the penalty box...

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