The Hobby Lobby case

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Totes.
     
  2. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    $30.

    Often the co-pay is $25.
     
  3. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Yes. You actually have to principles to begin with, you obviously don't.

    BTW, Hobby Lobby's principles aren't necessarily mine.
     
  4. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    'Hobby Lobby' doesnt have principles. 'Hobby Lobby' doesnt even have ideas. Only humans have those.
     
  5. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I haven't checked this specifically but I'm pretty certain that, if US law is the same as British law, YOU didn't become a corporation, you arranged for the formation of a corporation or, possibly, bought one off the shelf but you were still you and the corporation was still the corporation.

    If you and the corporation were the same thing then you could simply take the corporations money because, by definition, it's your money. Well, last time I looked, you can't... it's a criminal offence, (called 'conversion', IIRC... not that I've ever done it, obviously ;)).

    TBH this whole area of corporate personhood as it is in the US, together with it's ramifications, ('citizens united', this new lunacy and whatever the hell comes next), has made the USA an international laughing stock.
     
  6. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Link?
     
  7. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    You do realise you've quoted selectively I assume?

    Ask most people outside the USA about the matter and see what response you get to corporations being people who now, apparently, even have religious beliefs that have to be taken into account.

    I mean, what's going to happen next? Is Microsoft going to run off with it's secretary? Is Google going to go on holiday with HSBC and have a row about the gas mileage it gets from it's MPV?

    DO you think any OTHER countries allows corporations to buy election advertising like the US does?
     
  8. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Highly ironic given people like you blew Mitt Romney's original quote entirely out of context.
     
  9. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    #109 JBigjake, Apr 13, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
    No, I haven't. You made an assertion. There must be some information out there, to back it up. I simply requested a link.
    So, you've personally conducted a survey on this? Or, read one? It's an actual topic of conversation?
    Well, technically, I think the US does not generally allow corporations to do this. PACs are another story.
    But, if you have any actual information on the topic, feel free to post it here.
    indias-2014-election-cost-5-billion-second-only-price-tag-2012-us-presidential-election-1570668
    "Campaign spending by the BJP has already come under fire from Congress, who accuse Modi of using “black money” in his massive advertising and publicity blitz." ... "Modi has frequently alleged the Congress of using black money ..."
     
  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Your post...

    What I actually said, with the bits you missed out highlighted...
    But you want some links? Well, you could just google 'American Corporate personhood', 'Hobby Lobby' and 'Citizens United' and click the 'news' link on google on the results but, as you can't be bothered, (or are afraid to see the results), as you're too busy, I've done it for you :)

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/hobby-lobby-supreme-court-obamacare
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/25/how-public-dissent-in-par_n_5029738.html
    http://www.thenation.com/blog/17919...fdr-weve-been-fighting-get-money-out-politics
    http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/24/print-coverage-of-supreme-court-contraception-c/198579
    http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-lobby-supreme-court-beyond-religious-libety
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-kmiec/corporations-are-not-citizens-united_b_5047987.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/mar/24/hobby-lobby-sureme-court-obamacare-contraception
    http://www.salon.com/2014/03/25/fox..._lobby_case_is_about_euthanasia_and_abortion/
    http://www.salon.com/2014/03/18/sca...cotus_case_may_be_worse_than_citizens_united/

    and my favourite...

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...ens-united-and-the-revenge-of-the-sore-losers

    [​IMG]

    Like that guy on 'The Daily Show', says...

    You're welcome :)
     
    HerthaBerwyn repped this.
  11. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    mother jones
    the nation
    media matters
    huffington post
    salon

    nothing but pure news reporting there. not one tiny bit of bias.
     
  12. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    There's also the guardian and there were links to The Times but that requires payment so I didn't give them. You think other quality newspapers will give a different slant?

    Maybe you'd like to give to us a 'fair and balanced' view from Faux News? I'm sure that will be more measured.

    HEY! If you can find the opposite view from a decent news source, knock yourself out.
     
    HerthaBerwyn and Auriaprottu repped this.
  13. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    You really shouldn't be this thick.
    Given your quote, of any length, I asked for a link to support your assertion. Something foreign, obviously, perhaps supported by a survey or some documentation, which you have not provided. The only foreign mentions I saw in your linked articles were Aristotle, the Paris Commune & the Nazis.
    So, you wasted my time. Try again, or don't, as you see fit. Just don't get all supercilious.
     
  14. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Well, strictly speaking, people abroad CAN read those stories and many do, particularly huffpo and stuff like salon, the nation, motherjones, etc. etc... that's kinda how the internet works, y'know... ;)

    Also, the grauniad I linked to is the same as the printed newspaper over here and is 'branded' as grauniad.com US version... it's the same story by the same journalist. In that sense it's much the same for you as the other sites I mentioned above is for us, just in reverse.

    As stated, the times is pay only so can't practically give links to that but, trust me, it's pretty much the same as all the rest...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...supreme-court-threaten-democracy-9233751.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ourt-voids-overall-campaign-donor-limits.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/02/supreme-court-mccutcheon-decision-what-now
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...side-groups-overshadow-parties-key-races.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/08/supreme-court-fight-for-voting-rights
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/06/money-bought-elections-us-donation-rules

    As you might know, the daily 'hate-mail' is a conservative paper... and THEN some.

    I don't speak any foreign languages but I wouldn't mind guessing, (based on discussions I've had with people abroad), that they're all in a similar vein as well.

    As I said, if you can find a foreign, moderate, (or even slightly right of centre like the hate-mail or torygraph), publication with a view in FAVOUR of these things, I'd be interested in seeing it as everything I'VE seen is against them and finds them pretty much laughable.
     
  15. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    two words: George Soros.

    does his name appear anywhere in the articles? is the focus on anything but conservative rich guys?
     
  16. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The argument holds regardless of who's involved, obviously.

    In any case my point is that the view outside the US is almost universally hostile to the proposition that 'corporations are people' in the way the argument is developing in America.
     
  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes.
     
  18. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's considered pretty stupid and hostile in most places in the US as well. Unfortunately one of the few places it is not is is the SC building. And 1.75 sides of the rotunda down the street (but at least they've been paid for years to think this way).

    It should be hostile everywhere, it's a disgusting concept.
     
    rslfanboy repped this.
  19. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    He lives in another country. He can actually hear people laughing at us.
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Four words

    ...is not a corporation.

    Stilton, you're a Christian, right? So am I. You don't think it's freakin' weird that a corporation is claiming religious beliefs?????
     
  21. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    From his rear garden.
     
  22. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I was excluding places like north Korea and Iran... was that wrong?:giggle:
     
  23. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Er.... what? :cautious:

    Anyway, 'on my TV' and 'in my newspapers' would be more accurate. It's been discussed on various shows and articles over the years and pretty much EVERYONE find it incomprehensible.

    Let's be honest... it would have been incomprehensible in the USA 30-40 years ago.
     
  24. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's what's so odd. If you talk to people in the US, on these boards and elsewhere, THEY find some of this stuff strange.
     
  25. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes and no.

    the yes part is a function of the clear fact that a corporation per se is not a person with individual beliefs as has been already discussed.

    the no part is that HL is a privately owned enterprise of specific individuals who formed the corporation with a mission. they run their business differently from most publicly traded corporations. whether this gives them a pass, i don't know. that's above my paygrade. but i think they deserve a fair look at whether their status as a private enterprise makes them distinct from publicly traded ones.
     

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