The Greatest Players in English Football History

Discussion in 'Premier League' started by comme, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. 'appy Addick

    'appy Addick New Member

    Dec 23, 2009
    Portsmouth
    Club:
    Charlton Athletic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    Sam Bartram never operated at the highest level...? Fifteen or so years in the First Division.... and it would have been more if World War 2 hadn't intervened....... played in a team that finished runners up in the 1st Division......... played in two FA Cup Finals........ widely regarded as the best goalkeeper England never had..?

    Never operated at the highest level..? What do you want, mate..? If your criteria is international caps (which is the only thing Sam didn't get in his career) is the overriding criteria, then why not just say so and call this an international listing...?

    And if that is the case, where is Peter "The Cat" Bonetti on the list..? He played in a World Cup, don't forget (how could we forget England vs Germany, 1970?).... And what about Chris Woods who won a lot of England caps, mostly in the reign of an absolute muppet it has to be said, but hey.... this is about caps, right..?

    And then there's Gary Sprake of the highly successful Leeds United team of the 60s and 70s.... ok, he was prone to the odd howler here and there but he won a lot of caps for Wales so he must have played at the highest level, right..?

    Bob Wilson did the Double with Arsenal in the days when doing the Double was actually a rare achievement. And he won international caps with Scotland. No mention of him, either..?

    Sam Bartram didn't operate at the highest level....? Saints preserve us...!! <Rolls eyes upwards and walks away, shaking head sadly>
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  2. 'appy Addick

    'appy Addick New Member

    Dec 23, 2009
    Portsmouth
    Club:
    Charlton Athletic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    The counter argument to the assertion that players of yesteryear couldn't survive in todays football, is to challenge whether today's players could have survived in the 50's, 60's or 70's.

    With football becoming increasingly sanitised, and the contact element being taken out of the game, I wonder how many of today's Nancy boy footballers, who faint at the first whiff of a tackle, or who go to ground when they feel the force of a kitten's fart from tier three of the stand, and roll around in agony, clutching their faces while their team mates wave imaginary cards in the referees face..... how would they have fared with Norman Hunter, or Ron "chopper" Harris, or Peter Storey, or Tommy Smith kicking lumps off them every Saturday afternoon...?

    I'd like to see Michael Owen get back up after Billy Bremner made a point of introducing himself, or the ever precious Wayne Rooney stand up to a thumping from any of the Italian hatchet men that would have been awaiting him in European or International football. Claudio Gentile was not a gentle man.

    And then there were the playing conditions themselves.......

    I'd love to see your silky skilled, technical geniuses parade their graceful talents on the old Baseball Ground pitch at Derby County in January...... or Loftus Road... or Filbert Street.

    Sodden mudbaths... not a blade of grass left down the middle of the field after about mid October. Tons of sand shovelled onto them before matches, getting churned up into a quagmire which sapped the strength from the legs and rendered studded boots ineffective for keeping balance because they became caked with thick, cloying mud within minutes of setting foot on the field.

    Let's see Arsenal's beautiful passing game flourish on the frost frozen ruts of February and March when playing the ball along the ground was nothing more than a lottery.

    Let's see any of today's pampered, softie superstars excel on anything less than the snooker table, perfection surfaces that they have today, and with the physical element of football that is being systematically eradicatd from the game, restored to allow the tackling terrorists to return and make their presence felt.

    I think your wussy superstars of the modern EPL would be running and crying for mummy long before somebody like Dave Mackay had finished with them.


    .
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  3. chrizzah

    chrizzah Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    DC
    Comparing players of different eras is a little bit apples and oranges. You can only consider them in the context of when they played. Sports science has vastly improved since the 40s and 50s, and players of that era would have benefited from those improvements if they played today.

    Going outside of football and using a rather simplistic example, Roger Bannister wasn't a mediocre runner in an even more mediocre era. Had he been competing today; he would, in all likelihood have, have gone a lot further than just breaking the four minute mile. Would he have been competing with the world's best? It's completely unknown, but you'd still have to consider him as one of the all-time great mile runners for his accomplishment in his era.
     
  4. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    :D :D

    only three years and 73 days later ... and vindication cometh!

    cheers and a spot of rep to you, sir.

    :D
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  5. OrientFan

    OrientFan Member

    Nov 13, 2005
    Orlando/London
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Did I miss or you miss Peter "the cat" Bonetti??
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  6. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ["kitten fart", that's a good one, mate. Thank you for backing up & elaborating on what I was saying about the English top-flight of the '40s, '50s & '60s as well.]
     
  7. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Dalglish v. Henry:

    [I actually have to agree w/Lanman on something. ;) The forward roles that "King Kenny" & Henry actually played for Liverpool & Arsenal respectively are too different for a head-to-head comparison IMO. Bergkamp v. Dalglish would probably be a more suitable contest if you're still looking for one, thebigman.]
     
  8. seziers

    seziers New Member

    Jan 31, 2011
  9. kamrozzaman

    kamrozzaman New Member

    Feb 5, 2011
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    reina
    carragher
    agger
    gerrard
    kuyt
    dalglish
    ian rush
    robbie fowler
    allan shearer
    carlos tevez
    owen
     
  10. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    What about Emlyn Hughes?

    [Do you think you have enough Liverpool players in your list, mate? :D]
     
    Gregoriak and EruditeHobo repped this.
  11. anjrotjii

    anjrotjii Red Card

    May 1, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    very nice information.i like it
     
  12. anjrotjii

    anjrotjii Red Card

    May 1, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    i like this article
     
  13. anjrotjii

    anjrotjii Red Card

    May 1, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    :)
    very nice information.i like it
     
  14. nurspec

    nurspec Member

    Sep 26, 2003
    new york
    Sanatized??????? is that what you want to call it.
    Maybe the fact that after a few years of broken limbs ending careers they chose to adjust that Neanderthal approach to the game for the sake of self preservation.And only allow it for teams to use against Arsenal.
    I grew up in England in the 70's was very familiar with Ron Harris as he played for the fisrt team i fell in ,love with and Bremner was his main foe at that time if i'm not mistaken. The rivalry between Chelsea and Leeds was legendary. But i wouldn't change todays game for that bloodbath back then for anything. It's called evolution and it's a good thing. BUt yeah i would love to see Henry play in them days ,that would be absolutely hilarious. By the way someone compared stats of Henry and the great Kenny Dalglish ,but never pt up Dalglish's assist stats, because thats what made Henry one of the best ever. Personally , i think Drogba is the best centre forward ever in that league ,when you consider how much he brings to the game ,the amount of goals he's scored in BIG matches. Not many can compare to him when you take a good look at his ability.

    I think anyone who yearns for them days back then ,can't play football. It's the same mentality that keeps players like Walcott and ADam johnson at home while players like Lampard , Barry and Milner stink up south africa! A joke is what it is, England desperately trying to hold onto a bankrupt identity. You'll win nothing dreaming holding on to the past,our days are done ,get over it and let the youth take over.
     
  15. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    This one has been "cellar dwelling" for too long IMHO...
     
  16. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Can't believe it was 5 years since I did this.
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  17. nurspec

    nurspec Member

    Sep 26, 2003
    new york
    Nice reminder! Made them statements before Drogba's champions league heroics!
    When you look at the exploits of who many want to call the best player ever (messi's ) exploits in the world cup ,i think i am fully justified in saying 80% of the footballing reporting world got their heads up their *sses ,and are only driven by the lemming like throng that follow their every sensationalist word in their quest out of their mundane lives.
     
  18. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England




    [Yeah, I came across this thread looking for info about Neil Franklin to post links to over @ XT.org...]
     
  19. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England



    [I was in Britain when that aired: one of the best programmes/specials that I've ever seen on BBC4 IMO. That '57 FA Cup Final was also the one where Duncan Edwards featured as a (W-M-type) centre-half for most of the match IIRC...]
     
    frasermc repped this.
  20. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    haha old bit of genius from 07 i had to ressurect
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  21. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Full match footage of the '57 FA Cup Final:




     
    Gregoriak and Amyl repped this.
  22. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England



    [:thumbsup:! It looked even better in actual "living" colour, mate... ;)]
     
  23. Nobber

    Nobber New Member

    Jul 11, 2013
    Lancashire
    Club:
    Preston North End FC

    Pissed my sides at Owen.
     
  24. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Gregoriak and lanman repped this.
  25. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.

Share This Page