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Discussion in 'Ireland' started by Top Dog, May 9, 2009.
In the interest of brotherly love i'll change my choice to Steve Staunton.
2nd most capped irish international of all time (102), most capped for the roi and one of only 2 between the 2 teams to make over 100 appearances
A good case for his inclusion.
definitely a case for inclusion i would have thought.
You keep making up rules to suit your argument. That's all. Made up rules. Rules that Lamb says, 'Here's what I think being Irish means'. Hate to break it to you, but your made up rules matter to no one except yourself.
The more commonly applied rule, the one which countries and FIFA work by is citizenship. If you are a citizen, you're a citizen and you qualify. Simple as.
There are two ways to be a citizen of a country - be born one or attain it through some naturalization process (marriage, etc.). Despite what you might believe, given that you make up rules 'n all, John Aldridge was born an Irish citizen. He may not have received his passport until he was whatever age, but once he proved that he was an Irish citizen, the law states that he was always an Irish citizen. That's how citizenship works. It's like being born with red hair or blue eyes; you are born a citizen.
And all the other rules that you want to make up in your spare time have no bearing on anything except in your fantasy little world. John Aldridge was born an Irish citizen and absent his renouncing his citizenship, he will die one.
Irish citizenship is a very simple concept to understand. If either of your parents or any one of your 4 grandparents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, you are then an Irish citizen; if you are born on the island of Ireland, you're an Irish citizen. That's it. Italy, for instance goes back to great-grandparents, I believe, but the grandparent cut off is quite usual for most countries. There are some countries, such as Switzerland, that have very strict citizenship rules that even been born there won't qualify you. But in regards to citizenship, it is something that you are born with.
Regardless of what might happen after one's birth, your natural or birth mother is always that - your natural or birth mother. Same with citizenship; if you fulfill the grandparent or geographic stipulations, then you are an Irish citizen and you always will be.
John Aldridge was born an Irish citizen; all that happened when he was 27 was that he proved that to FIFA. But he was an Irish citizen before FIFA ever became involved.
you KEEP saying that, but you are wrong every time. the only part above you got half right (in respect of not actually being born on the island and not including the great grandparents comment) was the underlined part and that only applies if done before dec 1986.
you AREN'T a citizen just by meeting stipulations, you are only entitled to claim it (check out the way the great grand parents ruling works to see). it is NOT automatic until claimed (regarding being born outside the roi).
citizenship thru the great-grand parent rule is in effect in the republic of ireland but it has restrictions, depending if succeeding generations took up their citizenship or not.
"If you were born outside Ireland to an Irish citizen who was himself or herself born outside Ireland and if any of your grandparents was born in Ireland, then you are entitled to become an Irish citizen. However before you can claim Irish citizenship, you must have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register"
"A person whose grandfather or grandmother was born in Ireland may become an Irish citizen by registering in the Foreign Births Register at an Irish Embassy or Consular Office or at the Department of Foreign Affairs."
if you're going to try and tear my opinion apart at least try and get your facts right first.
i think even malby mcguiness there ( j/k) knows exactly where i am coming from on the subject. correct?
anyone got aldridge's (auto)biography? check page 145 and see what he says himself.
if i read it right, in theory if you played it right you could have irish "citizens" in 2,000 years whose only link to ireland was the original connection those 2,000 years before......no doubt big jack's far, far, far, far, far, far in the future replacement might try to avail himself of that one
So you are talking about the law that was passed in 2005 or was it 2004? Why don't we talk about the citizen statutes that were in place when Aldridge was an Irish citizen, not amendments and changes to the law 15+ years after the fact. When Aldridge was born, when he claimed his passport, when he played for ireland, when he retired from football, the law was a I stated. That it may have changed since matters not. Again, John Aldridge always was, is now and will be an Irish citizen.
as far as i am aware the only major changes that i mentioned were in relation to the 1986 act, which stopped the retroactive citizenship.
you're arguing on a legalese basis for citizenship inclusion, i'm arguing on a basic tangible connection premise for inclusion. i'm not sure they will ever meet with regards to players like john aldridge without specific definition of "irish", whether it's the legal term or a real connection. imo if you're having to go back 100+ years to find his last real irish connection to include a player its tenuous to say the least.
(we should ask the hardcore gaa guys and see what they think )
john aldridge was NOT an irish citizen until he enacted his claim for citizenship, which was THEN and ONLY THEN retroactively applied, add that in to the rest of the flimsy "irishness" and i vote to count him out
OK. You're wrong. Done.
John Aldridge will never be challenged anywhere about which country of which he's a citizen.
he's been getting challenged about it for years ffs.
you stick with that bit of paper and hold on tight, cos thats about the only real irish thing about him (and even that was probably imported too)
i have a question though. would YOU pick him in your top 5 irish players of all time?
He's better than Robbie Keane, but shouldn't figure on Top 5 of all time lists.
My surname is Adams actually
Yes I do, you're bitter.
The question was 'who in your opinion' is the greatest Irish player of all time'.
For me it will always be
2. Gaz Kelly.
3. Ian Harte.
good for you
what am i bitter about? john aldridge not playing for NI?
*does not compute*
to be honest the only thing i am bitter about is the poaching of NI players by the FAI, but thats another thread/argument in itself.
interesting. a new charlton era fan by any chance?