In reading the names being thrown out in conjunction with the recent Texas news, I forgot to include two names on the list given out earlier: Janet Rayfield and Amanda Cromwell. They absolutely have proven their success over the long term. "Qualified female coaches like Leslie Gallimore, Nancy Feldman, Shelly Smith, Lori Walker, Alison Foley, Nikki Izzo, Nancy Feldman, and Becky Burleigh are definitely out there (Erica Walsh would make this list if she could be more consistent with all the talent she has)." Will be interesting to see what effect the new hires for the Texas staff will be and the following domino effect. New opportunities for females, and hopefully chances for some qualified males too.
Janet Rayfield? Classic under achiever. Big school, pick of the kids from Chicago. How many Big Ten titles? How many final 4's?
Female coach, Laurie Darling Gutheil, won D2 final with College of St. Rose. Special relationship with players and program.
Here is an example of what I was talking about in the hot seat thread (by the way OP, it's pretty cheesy starting a thread and not doing any discussing): Lake Erie College. They hired a female who had one year as a grad assistant and two years as a DIII assistant before becoming a DII head coach in the GLIAC. I know that Lake Erie had applications from at least three male coaches with seven or more years of experience in DII, with a great deal of success and none got an interview. This season ended up being a one win season (after 6 and 3 win seasons previously). How can anyone justify this hiring with anything other then her being a female?
You picked a horrible example to rail on. The Equity in athletics cutting tool database shows that the soccer coach at Lake Erie College is a part time position., and that even at the full time scale the average pay for a FTE women's coach is around 30K. The assistant position is also part time, and the Full time Employee rate for women's assistants is 24K. Do you honestly think any person with 7 years experience would seriously consider that job? Do you have evidence that the males were turned down? Or did they just go away when they found out the pay structure?
Beat two male coaches at the final four. Eric Faulconer (Armstrong Atlantic) and Dave Dilanni (Grand Valley). Both who are considered top coaches in the DII ranks. Congrats to Laurie.
1) I know for a fact that some highly qualified males were never even given a chance for an interview. 2) The data does not say that it is a part-time position, but that the person is "assigned to the team on a part time basis." In other words that the person is a coach and has another responsibility within the athletic department. 3) The data is at least two years behind as LEC is listed as having a male coach for women's soccer and a few other schools that have made changes at least two years ago are listed wrong. A school I was previously at is still listed as having a part time women's soccer coach when they hired a full time head coach two years ago.
You only bring in people you think you have a chance of landing. Spin it how you want, the soccer coaching position is part time. you have to do your coaching, recruiting, and management on a part time basis. Not a recipe for upward mobility when you are competing against full time people. The 30K listed is for a full time equivalent position. They would have to at least double. the full time rate the datbase lists to get a experienced full time coach. Truth is, i don't know a full time coach who makes 60K or less. A total of EIGHT womens head caches split $192K. I'm sure they don't all get the same, but no way the soccer coach gets a third of the pot. Any indication they doubled what they pay coaches? They paid somebody with no experience DOUBLE what they did before?
Yeah, I had second thoughts about Burleigh as well. Heard her (male) assistants are the reason for her success. But that leaves a real short list of current successful female head coaches: Janet Rayfield Amanda Cromwell Leslie Gallimore Nancy Feldman Shelly Smith Lori Walker Alison Foley Nikki Izzo Nancy Feldman Is that it? Small list. Maybe add like a Jen Rockwood or Karen Ferguson to this? I may now add Walsh to it, just for how paltry the list is. Top 10 current male women's coaches list would include: Anson Dorrance, Tony da Luz, Mark Krikorian, Steve Swanson, Paul Ratcliffe, Randy Waldrum, G Guerrieri, Robbie Church, Len Tsantiris (recent slipping), Patrick Baker (now an asst). I know there will be a lot of disagreement on these choices. But my point is compare this list to the females list. Not even close in terms of quality. Look at who the top club coaches are as well that the top recruits come from. The club coaches are Ziad Khoury, Paul Riley, Doug Bracken, Mike O'Neill, Tim Schultz, Jason Dewhurst, Clyde Watson, Rory Dames, Ryan Higginbotham, Phillippe Blin. See a trend here? Again, I'm not ranting all female coaches are terrible. But if you look at the successful coaches at the club and college racks and how the majority of them are males, it just boggles my mind why you would limit your search to just females. Look at the GW example. They did a female-only search. One of the 3 candidates they brought in was Sarah Barnes. They underperformed big-time so she gets let go with the Texas staff. How is it she gets let go for a very underperforming program, but somehow another Division I institution will give her a 1-in-3 chance to now be promoted from an underachieving assistant coach to a head coach? And if she actually gets the job...
I really don't think anyone believes the pool of qualified women's coaches makes up more than about 10% of the pool for these jobs . . . but your list is, IMHO, too restrictive. What about the Chico St. coach or St. Rose coach? D2 Final Four folks probably can coach, no? Of course, I wouldn't have put Gallimore on the list . . . And Clive - a LOT of college coaches, including in D1 are making WAAAAAYYY less than $60k. That's HC's not assistants. Just sayin' I took 30 seconds to see about UW-GB's current head coach and he (according to the UW System website) will make $41k this year. You can figure he adds a little for camp/club (and maybe some other duty at the college, I wouldn't have seen that) . . . but he's not getting to $50k. BCS folks are obviously doing better, but I know several D1 head coaches who WISH they made what the guy at GB makes.
Becky Burleigh is a quality coach......Becky plus one other female were the coaches with Vic for the 1998 national championship. Vic is good too, but is he really the wizard behind the curtain? I think they make a good team. Alan is very good as well, but he wasn't there in 1998.
Actually Lake Erie is full time. Only main issue is the salary is only 28,000 a year so perhaps better candidates would not have been interested. However 2 of the 3 people interviewed were female; one was the women's grad assistant and one was the woman who got the job. So not too terrible an example.
As an AD would you think you have no chance of landing someone who called to discuss the position with you before applying? I know two male candidates who did. I know another male candidate who was in his 7th year as an assistant within the region who was looking to be a head coach and was very interested. Would an AD think he was not interested? Many successful coaches at the DII, III and NAIA level have other responsibilities within the athletic department and many coaches who have moved upward have had that experience. 1) If you also have other responsibilities mean that you get paid for those responsibilities. In other words you get $25k to coach, but you also get $15k to be the coordinator of intramural sports. 2) If you don't know of a full time coach coach making less then $60k then you should recuse yourself from this discussion. Especially at the DII, III and NAIA levels many, if not most coaches make less then $60k. 3) There are nine head coaches and two are listed under "Part‑Time Institution Employee or Volunteer" 4) Finally, as I pointed out before these numbers are not accurate for the 11-12 school year. LEC is listed as having a male head coach. They also just moved up to DII just three years ago, have added sports and staff, so their budget and staffing has been changing. cliveworshipper- You are a great poster, but it's clear that when it comes to the topic of salaries and staffing at levels below DI you are not an expert.
Sorry, regardless what you think i know about D2, D3, or NAIA pay, that's not what the federal database says. the total full time employee salary for a women's head coach at Lake Erie College is $30,899. That's it. That's what FTE means. here is a screen shot of the DB listing: the actual coaching pay is $21,382. Add in your intramural pay or whatever to get to the $30K before i recuse myself, what I said was EXPERIENCED coach. if you want to hire an intern, fine, but experienced coaches don't live in the garage. the 192K listed as the total pay for women's coaches divided by 9 is a little over $21K. Thanks for making my point. The numbers are the most recent available. they are woefully inadequate if you are trying to build a competitive program, and if you are trying to attract real coaches.. Sorry, that's just the reality of it. it might be fine if you just want kids to go have fun, but not to be competitive. You just won't get good , EXPERIENCED people for those salaries. it is less than most D1 or D2 assistants make, and not as good a way to get yourself noticed for a real position. if you think they raised the pay scale, show it. I'm sure there would be listings somewhere. if they did raise the pay grades, wouldn't they want to let people know? but we can go around forever on this. consider me recused.
Sorry, regardless what you think i know about D2, D3, or NAIA pay, that's not what the federal database says. the total full time employee salary for a full time employee at the women's head coach level at Lake Erie College is $30,899. That's it. That's what FTE means. here is a screen shot of the DB listing: the actual coaching pay is $21,382. Add in your intramural pay or whatever to get to the $30K before i recuse myself, what I said was EXPERIENCED coach. if you want to hire an intern, fine, but experienced coaches don't live in the garage. the 192K listed as the total pay for women's coaches divided by 9 is a little over $21K. The 6.23 full time employees they claim gets you to the $30K level, but they share that with the 2.75 part time employees. Thanks for making my point. The numbers are the most recent available. they are woefully inadequate if you are trying to build a competitive program, and if you are trying to attract real coaches.. Sorry, that's just the reality of it. it might be fine if you just want kids to go have fun, but not to be competitive. You just won't get good , EXPERIENCED people for those salaries. it is less than most D1 or D2 assistants make, and not as good a way to get yourself noticed for a real position. if you think they raised the pay scale, show it. I'm sure there would be listings somewhere. if they did raise the pay grades, wouldn't they want to let people know? but we can go around forever on this. consider me recused.
Clive, we love you, but in this case the data is not telling the story. The part you're missing is there are very good, very experienced (D1) coaches who ARE working for $30k give or take. Western State (CO) is starting a D2 program in the RMAC and advertising a salary of $31k. I don't think they'll fail the search. There are guys/girls who love the game and want to be certain places or have certain positions, or whatever. Smart schools at least try to get bargains, Lake Erie (and others) didn't. I'm sure some of them are just kind of disinterested, but discrimination certainly is a part of it as well.
It is true. There are plenty of experienced DI coaches who have been successful making way less than 60k a year. Look in the smaller conferences and you will find this to be the case with many, many coaches.
Before we start yelling discrimination how many male head coaches are coaching in Div women's soccer and how many female? It is easy play this game men coaches are bad just look at the CMU coach. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4029304 The truth is the coaching equity is lopsided in the men's favor just as was sports in general in Tile IX. SO I have no problem hiring women but if they fail they should fired just as should the men. For a 30k a year salary hire the young women and see what she can do over an "experienced" male which you pretty much know what you are going get.
This is from 11 years ago so I am not sure if it still relevant http://www.makeithappen.com/wis/readings/coaches.html There has never been a better time to be a female athlete in college sports, but women apparently believe that there has never been a worse time to be a coach. According to a new study, fewer women, on a percentage basis, are coaching women's teams now than at any point in the past 23 years. Women represent only 45.6 percent of the coaches of women's teams in the National Collegiate Athletic Association in 2000, according to the latest edition of a longitudinal study by R. Vivian Acosta and Linda Jean Carpenter. The two former professors of physical education, who recently retired from Brooklyn College of the City University of New York, have studied trends in women's sports since 1977. By comparison, women made up 58 percent of coaches in 1978 and 47.4 percent in 1998, according to the study. Women represent less than 2 percent of the coaches of men's teams this year, as has been the case throughout the study's history. On the other hand, there are more women's teams in the N.C.A.A. than ever before. The study found that N.C.A.A. members now offer an average of 8.14 women's teams, including an average of 8.87 at Division I institutions, 6.62 at Division II institutions, and 8.45 at Division III institutions. In 1977-78, colleges fielded an average of only 5.61 teams for women. The study did not include numbers for men's teams. The decline in the percentage of female coaches is troubling, Ms. Carpenter said, because young women need role models in leadership positions. "Athletics is such an intense part of an athlete's life that when role models appear in context, they can have quite a positive effect," Ms. Carpenter said. "It's also disturbing because there's not any concomitant increase in the representation of women in men's programs." Furthermore, athletics directors are not hiring very many female coaches now. The study found that there have been 534 head-coaching jobs created for women's teams since 1998, and that 80 percent of those openings have been filled by men. However, athletics directors say they are not entirely to blame for not hiring women. Often, when they advertise for a women's coaching position, they point out, few if any women apply. According to Ms. Carpenter, part of the reason is that women coming out of college have far more career choices now than in the 1970's. "In the 70's, women's opportunities to work outside the home were teaching and nursing," she said. "Now, the world of employment opportunities is much more open to women, so women are making choices based on a bigger menu. I think we need to work harder for children to see coaching as a viable employment opportunity." The number of female athletics administrators has nearly doubled since 1988, from 528 to 998. However, women still represent only 34 percent of all athletics administrators at N.C.A.A. institutions, up from 29 percent in 1988. Ms. Carpenter said there were more female university presidents in Division I-A than female athletics directors. Only 9.5 percent of full-time sports-information directors are women, and 25.5 percent of full-time athletics trainers are women. For athletes, opportunities continue to grow, especially in Division III. The study found that 205 women's teams were added from 1998 to 2000, more than half of them at Division III institutions, which do not offer athletics scholarships. Basketball, volleyball, tennis, cross country, and soccer were the five most popular sports. This year's study includes data from 75 percent of the N.C.A.A.'s member institutions, Ms. Carpenter said.
The listing is for athletic department money only, thus what I said would be correct. Feel free to make pithy comments like that, but it doesn't change the fact that most college coaches make less then $60k...even ones with plenty of experience. Did you miss the part about two of those nine being part-time or did you choose to ignore it in order to not admit you were wrong about something? 1) The fact that the the head coach is listed as male shows that the numbers are not current. 2) The fact that the head coach is not listed as having a secondary job in her profile shows that they have changed things. As does a little research which shows that the previous coach was coaching both the men and women and that they have now split the job into two full time positions. 3) Once again many "good,experienced" head coaches make less then $60k. As a matter of fact one of the NSCAA DII women's regional coaches of the year makes a lot less then that. Clive, you are a great poster, but this is a subject you know little about and, by continuing to press your opinions that are not based in fact, you make yourself look like the type of person who can't admit when they are wrong.