The Gooch Debate: Playing Devil's Advocate {R}

I've seen Oguchi Onyewu play a lot for the US. I was there in person to see the penalty he surrendered to Ghana. I remember seeing him burn it up in 2008-09, helping us qualify for the '10 WC, reach the final of the CC, and dominate Mexico again in Columbus (recall that great picture of him staring down Borghetti?).

In the past few games though, beginning with Scotland and ending with today's debacle against A&B, I'm appalled at how poorly he's played. If he didn't have a credible pedigree, for the US and club teams, I would't hesitate for a second before concluding that he's not NT level.

But before dismissing a player with his history for the US and degree of apparent natural talent, I want to at least consider--and get others' opinions on--the best arguments for keeping him in the player pool. Here are two, and I'm interested in hearing others:

First: perhaps Gooch's recent games aren't representative of his overall form of late. Maybe, that is, we're getting a biased sample of Gooch in the past few games. It's only been a couple weeks, after all. Maybe the dude is just off-form. The word is that he had a good season for Sporting Lisbon, and that's a credible mid-level European team (got to the semis of the Europa League). (Then again, has anyone actually seen Gooch play for Sporting? I haven't, and I wonder if there's evidence that he's actually playing well over the longer term, or if this is just something people have assumed because he's starting for Sporting.)

Second: Klinsmann sees something that we haven't. Who knows, maybe in practice and in other settings Gooch looks good, but has been out of form in game settings a few times. I give Klinsi a lot of benefit of the doubt, and he's clearly no soccer dummy, so his willingness to give Gooch a run out is some evidence (albeit weak evidence) that Gooch has something that he hasn't shown in the past few games. (Then again, Klinsi doesn't seem terribly supportive of Gooch. He's been dropped from the starting lineup, and was only in there today because of the injury to Torres. So it's not as though JK has given him a massive vote of confidence.)

I'm interested to hear if there's anything to these arguments (which, I stress, are my best attempt to play devil's advocate and come up with any reason that Gooch should be in the player pool after what's been a shocking few games), or if there are any other reasons that he should continue to get a run-out.

What I suspect, though, is that Gooch has always been kinda overrated. He was a rare example of a stereotypically big US athlete who opted for soccer over one of the other major sports, and that makes me think maybe people looked past his lack of skill due to his size and athleticism. Lord knows he gave up more than one clumsy penalty in his career (though he also has some attributes that are worth considering, like his being an aerial threat on corners).

Anyway, since people are (not unreasonably) dumping all over Gooch in the other threads, I wanted to isolate the issue and think about it seriously instead of just reflexively dismissing the guy, however tempting it may be at this point.

One argument in favor of Onyewu: he recently recovered from his February injury, and it isn't his fault Klinsmann has played him before he's completely ready.

One argument against Onyewu: the problem for playing for a club like Sporting Lisbon is that it can be tough to judge defensive quality in matches against opposition that cannot challenge them. This may also be something to keep in mind in the future with judging Bocanegra at Rangers, assuming that club isn't sent to the oblivion of the 5th division.

He is playing a big European club who is considering him for captain in the upcoming year. He was scoring a goal every five games before he got injured. If he can return to the midseason form he was playing in he will be fine. He's obviously not there yet, but as you mentioned our coach gets to watch him train etc... and wouldn't be playing him if he didn't have confidence in him. Let's all trust Klinsi and support our team. Players make mistakes, it happens.

Who's seen him play for Sporting? I heard that he was merely serviceable on defense and decent weapon on corner kicks.

I remember one of the games he scored. A fan in the YA forums basically said "great, he scored, but he was also responsible for a goal on the other end." Personally, that left me with the impression that his "good form" has been overstated on big soccer.

Yes, but when players make mistakes over and over, game after game, you have to look at your other options. How many mistakes do we allow him to make? What if he costs us the game down in Guatemala? Do we pull him then?

I have always felt him to be overrated. He had one good run which led to the AC Milan gig. Otherwise, it's been inconsistent for the national team. He is generally good against big strong forwards. Teams with pace or good ball movement shows his weakness. He is not good with the ball at his feet and his passing and decision making aren't good.

I said this after the Brazil game. Play Goodson for this round and start finding another backup.

"A man has to know his limitations." Was that from Cool Hand Luke? Gooch on that one play, at least, didn't play like he thought he had any limitations. Really poor decision making, something you don't want from a center back.

Interesting points. On the first, I didn't realize there was (yet) another injury in there. On the second, Sporting's level of competition is about what you have with leagues like Holland or France. Some very high-class teams (Benfica, Porto) that have a European presence; some that are good-not-great (e.g., Braga); and some real weaklings. But Sporting also played well into the European season, getting to the semis of the Europa League, so he likely faced some stiffer competition there.

Even if we give him credit for the injury, though, that still counsels in favor of keeping him out of the lineup bc he's clearly not match-fit yet, even though he may be someday.

Gooch isn't "out of form". He is physically unable to perform due to prior injuries. His legs are stiff. He can barely run. He's deadly slow. He must not play for the National Team gain until he is able to physically perform. That time may never come again.

The main argument in favor of OYnyewu right now is :

as bad he is,we don't have anyone else as good.

He definitely had a strong season, I think he was the highest-rated Sporting defender on the season by Record (at least he was near the end of the season when I last checked). Some Sporting fans did make comments that he was not quite fit enough for the cup final. That may be the best explanation, because I've always found Gooch to be a guy who needs rhythm in his game.

Haven't had the time to post regularly for a while, so excuse me if this was discussed, but ...

I was one of a few thousand fans who watched the MNT practice at the University of Maryland on Memorial Day, right before the friendly v Brasil. During practice, Gooch wore one of those rings (that I see aging runners wear) below his knee, which I took as an ominous sign. He did not wear the ring against Brasil a couple of days later, but I would agree that he did not look fast and fluid.

At the elite international level, a player needs the whole package, but at any level he needs his wheels. If you can't run, you can't play.

Let's hope that Gooch's recovery is still a work in progress.

[I did not watch last night's game v A&B, as my son had a game at exactly the same time.]

Agility was always a problem for Gooch, even at his peak. Now that he has been ravaged by multiple injuries it is even more of a problem. I'd like to think this is a temporary blip, but just looking at his history of injuries and his lack of mobility even before getting hurt a lot does pretty much sound like a recipe for a guy who just can't move like he used to. He is still dangerous moving forward on corners and if we face a team that focuses heavily on a big, strong striker he could still be useful. But yeah, he's not the guy he once was back there.

I caught some of his matches in Portugal this past season. I thought he looked good against the average level of competition there but struggled a bit in the few matches I saw against Porto and Benfica. Still, not to the extent that he's struggled in the past week or so.

He's not at his mid-season form, but I also don't think his mid-season form was anywhere near what he showed for Standard in Europe or for the US in the season prior to his major injury.

Gooch's form is definitely down right now, probably injury related, and it's right to put Goodson (sp?) ahead of him, who's played well, but people are going way overboard in saying Gooch should never play for us again. Gooch was at fault for one goal, in a game we won 3-1 and should have won 6-1 (or 6-0). The whole USMNT looked substandard yesterday, not just one defender. Now, that may be just down the rain and crap CONCACAF refereeing, so I think we need to stop reading so much into this.

gooch should only play when there are no other options

having to move boca to lb during the game opened up jk for the gooch blunder

goodson and boca in the middle are fine

the key was not having another LB once fabian and castillo where out

gooch needs to get into the euro seasn and play a dozen matches before i'd put him on any final 18

I disagree. At this point Cameron, Ream, Goodson, Parkhurst, and Jones are better options at CB. I would be more comfortable with any of them back there until Gooch regains his club form.

I'll just say that the extremely hyperbolic and predictable, "Player X should never play for the Nats again" sentiments that spring up after nearly every game are very predictable and one of the things I detest most on BS.

Yes. Gooch has been on poor form lately. But I put his struggles down to a lack of match fitness. But his mental blunder against A&B was troubling.

But his pedigree makes him a legit option in the pool, as does his reputed good form at Sporting. As I've said on the other threads, Cameron (red card, own goal) and Ream (constant mistakes) haven't covered themselves in glory in their appearances lately. Point being, Gooch is about where he should be right now, in contention to back up Goodson as the RCB.

If he continues to start and play well at Sporting, he should continue to be in the picture, though the job is Goodson's at this point, with Cameron (and a healthy Gonzalez) certainly on the upswing, and Parkurst and John likely options in the future as well.

It has to be remembered Gooch suffered a knee injury in late February that kept him out action for 6-8 weeks. He really didn't get that many games(returned April 24) in before coming into camp. He's not good enough to start right now for the team but should improve in the upcoming season if he stays healthy.

Much respect to the man for showing up in the first place. Others in his shoes would take the summer off to rest or just quit the international game to focus on the club career.

He shouldn't be in camp until he regains club form. Club form should ALWAYS be a prerequisite.

Completely agree. The next batch of Qualifiers is in September, which leaves no time for Gooch to reassert his form on the Club level. At the very least, he's done with the National Team in 2012. Perhaps next year. (And that is a long shot)

You also forget Gonzalez returning from injury as well for the September games.

http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/q-and-a-with-oguchi-onyewu/

"Also, I don’t know if people have noticed but, from the player you see now at 30 years old to the player I was in 2006 at 24 — I’ve slimmed up, I’ve definitely lost some weight and become a lot more mobile. I’ve done different testing, especially with the national team, and also with Milan, and as crazy as it might seem, with Milan I was the most agile player on the team in terms of changing directions and all that, and in the top seven in terms of speed. People probably label me as slow, because I’m tall and I have long strides."

Unfortunately, his mobility in the lab doesn't translate to mobility during the game.

I'd even dip deeper into MLS before bringing Gooch back.

I refuse to believe that Geoff Cameron isn't a better choice than Onyewu right now.

This is from a pure talent/potential standpoint. Gooch is just a liability that we do not need during qualifying...and I feel like Klinsmann should have been using these games to test Cameron more.