The Final Day in the EPL

Well, what about Blackburn? I think Venky's purchased them and I am assuming that the Premier League vetted them. Or, even Portsmouth. They ran into trouble with owners. I know you and I don't have enough money.

Not sure what the vetting process in the Premier League is - but, I don't think that they "pay" anything.

Look at Blackpool - promoted - upgrade the stadium - relegated - possibly promoted again.

I'm sure MLS would love for more fans outside of MLS cities to start following the league. Growing its TV revenues is at or near the top of the list of MLS priorities going forward. But a lot of sports have a problem drawing in fans who live 4+ hours away from the nearest team. It's just the nature of US geography and demographics that some people are going to be underserved by professional sports.

Your missing the point. They need to convert the Eurosnobs first.

Um...why?

Those people won't be fans until the league is the best. It's EASY to be a fan of the EPL. It's a lot harder to be a fan of your local team. The "Eurosnobs" aren't fans of teams that are struggling; they're fans of Chelsea, Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc.

We're not the only league that has to deal with this. People would rather sit at home than go out and support their local team. There are people who say they don't go and support their local team because there is no pro/rel. That is false. If there were pro/rel, they'd still sit at home instead of going out to support the local PDL team.

You mean the people that continue to make excuses on why they don't come to games? Those that said they didn't become because of the shootout, or the countdown clock? Those people that will just turn around and find another excuse for why they won't come?

Fulham may still have some fans.

The next complaint would be "New York and LA just got relegated? This would never happen in Europe! They would never allow Barcelona or Man Utd to drop. MLS needs to let the big teams spend whatever they need to be the best!"

And then.. "Seattle won the CONCACAF Champions League? What's that? If MLS is gonna be taken seriously, we need to make a deal with UEFA so we can compete in the real Champions League."

I was actually at Fulham's last game. The place was packed. By the way, they love Clint Dempsey. There was a sign that said "Clint make my day - Stay.

MLS still needs to find a way to get those fans to go to games. They obviously like football.

Do you think those fans would actually start going to local soccer matches if there was pro/rel in the US? I am highly skeptical, to say the least.

If their local team was in with a shot of going up, it could tempt them out. Beyond that, probably not.

Having pro/rel in itself isn't going to see crowds leap from 3000 to 10000. It didn't even happen in England when the football league brought in automatic promotion to the top tier in 1986/7, although the teams at the top did see much improved crowds.


The "Eurosnob" factor is just as strong in Europe too. It's not as if all those Man Utd fans in England, Real Madrid fans in Spain, Juventus fans in Italy etc don't have a local team nearby.

Well, people can root for whom they want. MLS needs to find a way to tap into the Eurosnob fan base in the states. As I said earlier, it would help if there were more games on television.

Monpellier is in their third season in Ligue 1 and will win the title unless they lose their last game tomorrow and Paris Saint-Germain win. Montpellier ends at last place Auxerre, who could move up one spot with a win and help but has no chance at surviving.

If the experience here is anything to go by, the kind of people who support a "top" side will always find an excuse for not watching their local team.

Kaiserslautern did in 1998

Don't you know if it does not happen in the EPL then it did not happen.

Of course if Pittsburgh (insert any lower division team) has a chance to get promoted to the top level it will bring more interest to the team. I mean...is this a serious question???

Unless you're asking if pro/rel would bring more support to already established MLS teams. No I don't think it would.

What were talking about though is pro/rel bringing more interest to lower division teams. To deny it wouldn't disregards everything we know about incentives and human behavior.

Except that it's not clear that promotion and relegation would see an increase in crowds. Teams have moved up all the time between the 3rd and 2nd division in the US. Guess what? Most of those teams fold the next year because there is no increase in the size of the crowds.

But, it's easier when you ignore the realities of American soccer.

The path to a more successful, richer MLS is not converting the Eurosnobs, it's getting the people who tune in to watch the US in the men's and women's world cups and might flip on the Champions League final to watch the MLS playoffs and occasionally go to their team's games. From there you start to build generational fanbases.

We can discuss the best way to make that happen, and there's room to disagree. But the Eurosnobs are going nowhere until MLS teams start laying waste to the top European teams. AKA, not in any of our lifetimes.

Oh god. Do you think before you post? There's never been pro/rel that goes up to Div 1.

What you're saying is that if there was pro/rel between MLS and D2 that D2 wouldn't get bigger crowds? That might win the prize for the dumbest thing ever said on big soccer. Lets unpack that a bit....Pro/rel between MLS and D2, Pittsburgh vs Rochester are in a battle to see who will win the league and be promoted, and according to CCSUltra this wouldn't bring more people to watch their games.

That won't happen until more games are available on tv. Pro/reg won't necessarily help.

Eurosnobs are still part of the equation. Equivalent of low hanging fruit. Don't have to explain the game to them.

Says the poster that spouts the same tireless "pro/rel is magic" drivel.

I wonder why...

Yes. Given where soccer is in this country, I don't think it would help get D2 bigger crowds. No matter what, D2 is still minor league. People in the US don't go to minor league sports because they want to see a team move up to a higher division. They go because the team has a connection to the community. That can happen without promotion and relegation. Unlike you, I've worked for lower division soccer teams in this country. I would be willing to bet I know more about how the teams run than you do.

Reread your posts and then get back to me.

That ain't gonna make the game more popular.

Trying not to take sides here and not trying to undermine a fellow SKC supporter, but I've always thought that this oft repeated statement is a non-argument. It presumes that everyone's views are black or white. The truth is a lot of current MLS fans were formerly "eurosnobs", or are even currently "eurosnobs" but flexible enough to enjoy MLS too. MLS made a lot of changes that made it more like an experience found in the rest of the world. Not coincidentally, IMO, you found a lot of people jumping on board that might have eschewed MLS previously.

Making up numbers: Let's say there are 1 million Americans who call themselves "Chelsea fans", and what if half of them will never ever pay a moment's attention to MLS except to deride it? Are we just going to throw the remaining 500k away with the bathwater? I think that is point being made.