The fight against modern football 3

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by Numquam Moribimur, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    It's wrong to throw stuff on at somebody, or if it's likely to cause injury. That wasn't the case at all with the tennis ball protest.


    You have a very dispassionate view of sports. To you it's no different from going to a cinema or going bowling, and if you don't like the "product" you just go somewhere else or don't go at all.

    The fans want to go to all the games. They just don't like outside interference - interference their club might be totally against - making supporting their club more expensive, more inconvenient, and altogether a less enjoyable experience.


  2. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    All Premier League clubs receive revenue from the Premier League. Some may make more than others (I disagree with that), but they all have revenue coming in. Don't be so sure clubs are spending what they say they are.


    You haven't read my posts have you. The local NFL teams attendance has fallen. To buy season tickets you used to have to pay a fee for the right to buy those seats (called a Personal Seat License) which is usually a contract for 30 years. They now waive that fee just to get people to buy tickets to get people in the building. Also small packages of tickets are offered as well. They are doing everything to get people back in the building.

    My point is fans voted with their wallets due to a poor product. The team is trying to woo them back.
  3. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    I am very passionate about sports. Every Sunday I watch them - win or lose. They have been awful for the past 5 years. I still watch and root. When I go to a game - I root hard too. When Landon Donovan scored for the USA against Algeria putting them in the next round- I ran around the table in my living room arms raised.

    If fans don't like the owner - buy him out. I am sure the Glazers, Abramovich, Lerner, Henry, all have a price in mind.


    Football clubs compete with cinemas, bowling alleys, golf courses for the entertainment dollar. People choose where to spend their money.

    Define outside interference. Owners are they interference? They pay the bills. They make the decisions. As they should. Television allows clubs to buy better players. It pays the freight. The clubs/leagues could reject the overtures from tv. But, they don't do they. Why?
  4. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    In 1994 the rights fee for the EPL in the United States was $50,000 per year US Dollars. The next contract for the EPL in the United States will be 180-200 million per year.

    It seems selfish to me that you don't want the game to grow to other areas of the world.


  5. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

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    If teams are all just about making money, why don't more European leagues switch to the Bundesliga model? It's the most profitable soccer league in Europe, and committed to the fans. Hell, it does that without the overseas presence of the EPL or La Liga.
  6. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    Let's say they wanted to do that?
    The problem is how would you compensate say the Glazers for Manchester United. How would someone come up with the 2 Billion it would take to buy Manchester United.

    I am assuming that you have a link to back your statement that the Bundesliga is the most profitable league?
  7. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    owned.http://www.footballinfo.org/real-madrid-the-most-profitable-club-in-the-world/

    List of the top 20 most profitable football clubs in the world. 7 from the The Premier League.

    The most profitable football league (your words) Bundesliga only has one club in the Top 50 Forbes list in terms of value. Bayern Munich. England had three (Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United). Seria A had 2 (AC Milan and Juventus). Spain had Barcelona and Real Madrid.
    the rest were NFL teams, a few NBA teams, and MLB teams.
    So being profitable hasn't helped their total value.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2011/07/12/the-worlds-50-most-valuable-sports-teams/
  8. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    Bump
  9. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

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    This is just so damn funny. I'm glad they did it. It (this particular method of protest) probably won't change anything, but I'd be pissed myself if my club had its match delayed because another club's manager was having a press conference and the TV station didn't want to cut in on it. "Stop the match! Mourinho's still talking!" I can't stop laughing...

    FWIW, the Sevilla ultras did wait until most of the players were upfield, and the keeper could have just sat in the net or run forward if he felt he was in any danger. The Basel ultras were in a corner.
  10. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

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    As pointed out before the revenue will not last if you do not have a resonsible way to deal with your lokals.

    Hmm let me think ???? Oh yes Liverpool played their last pre season match in Norway against Vålerenga.



    Yes to make money. The very reason there is a campain called against modern football exists.
    Would i like to see the same quality in Norwegian football as in EPL? Yes. Would i trade it for and get the modern football on with the trade . NO . I would rather watch a fotball of a lower quality the rest of my life.
    We have a very different structure of clubs in Norway then they do in England. So you can not just buy a Norwegian club. Not a 50+1 % rule, but you still can not buy a Norwegian like any other product in a store.
    Investor actually spoke in favor of changing the rules in Norwegian football so the investors can get more power in Norwegian football.
    Something that was not well received by NSA and fans in general.
  11. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    So why haven't you bought out your club's owner?

    I mean, just like fans here, I'm sure you must have a few hundred million dollars spare that you could use.

    They do, but people have no emotional attachment to their local bowling alley or cinema. If a cinema isn't showing a film they want to see, they'll just go to another one. If a Sunderland fan isn't happy with the football at the Stadium of Light, he won't go and watch a game at Newcastle instead.

    something beyond the club's control, such as a collective tv deal which is not in their interests, or a UEFA ruling meaning their live game has to kick of at an unsociable time so as to not clash with a champions league broadcast.

    Why would any club not deliberately put themselves at a huge competitive disadvantage? hmm, tough one.

    It might just be harder for an American to appreciate, where some kind of parity is considered important not just by the fans, but by tv as well. Over there TV wants every clubs to feel they have a shot at winning.

    Here it's different. TV just wants the biggest drawing clubs to be perpetually successful, as that brings in the biggest ratings.
  12. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

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    In most cases i would agree that nothing should be thrown on the pitch. The posted examples are not hurting anyone by using tennis balls and are used to make a point , not just to sabotage.

    In what way do we lack conviction?
  13. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    The person who wrote that article is moron.

    If he wasn't a moron he'd know the difference between income and profit.
  14. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    So when you disagree with someone you call them a moron? Classy. Almost as classy as throwing the tennis balls on the field.
  15. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    You lack conviction because you want change. I suggest a boycott. Oh no, I can't give up my football for a cause. Funny how fans in Europe want control, yet don't want to put their money where their mouths are (buy the club). The same way the Green/Gold movement has kind of gone from a roar to a whimper. We want the Glazers out - yet, instead of hitting them in the pocketbook - we still show up to games which line their (Glazers) pocketbook.

    Instead, delay a match by throwing tennis balls on the field. Which could jeopardize a fellow fans safety. You don't care about that though.
  16. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    In all cases. There is no reason to throw something on the pitch.
  17. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    You don't read for comprehension very well do you. The example I gave was during the World Cup 2010. Can't buy US Soccer Federation. Also, I have said in previous posts, there is not a MLS team where I live. You may want to go back and re-read. This time read for comprehension.

    people do have emotional attachments to businesses. Again, not paying attention. Some people go to a certain restaurant, buy a certain phone (I-Phone, Blackberry), where certain jeans, buy a certain brand of car. You are very wrong in that. Next you are going to say people don't do crazy things for businesses. Yes they do. At least in America. Thousands of people camped out for the new Apple I-Pad. Isn't that an emotional attachment?

    As I said earlier, then the other clubs have to stand up for themselves. Let Barcelona and Real Madrid have 38 El Classicos if that is what they want. They can't allow themselves to be pushed around.
  18. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    As I said in an earlier post - no possibility of a fan being hurt? I know you think this funny. That is sad on so many levels.
  19. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

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    Looking at the situation from the ownership's perspective, why should they bother making changes to appease a vocal minority of fans? Unless enough fans are willing to stop buying tickets and merchandise in order to hit the owners where it hurts the most (the pocketbook), what incentive do the owners have to make any changes to the way they do business?

    Basically, if ticket sales and revenues aren't going down, I think it's reasonable for the ownership of a club to conclude that the protests are the actions of a disgruntled minority, but that the silent majority are happy with the way things are being run. Listening to the loudest group of people isn't really a smart way to run a business.

    These fans aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is. No matter how pissed off they might be, their discontent is meaningless until they take actual steps to show their displeasure in a way that makes a financial difference. Sports fans need to get over the romantic notion that they are somehow different from other consumers. If you don't like a product, stop buying it and tell the company why. If enough people do the same, the company will be forced to change the way it does business. But if you hate the new iPad but end up buying it anyway, Apple isn't likely to take your complaints seriously.
  20. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    Anyone who writes an article about football club profitability, who doesn't know the difference between income (as listed by the article) and profit (nothing to do with the figures listed) is a moron.

    Real Madrid don't make £428 million profit. That is not a list of the most profitable clubs.

    The real figures are more like this.

    [​IMG]
  21. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    Can you provide a link for your source?
  22. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

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  23. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    I guess you can give plenty of examples in the USA where disgrunted fans have bought the club?

    No?

    Probably because it's a stupid suggestion.

    Really? So when you said you watch them every Sunday, win or lose, and they been awful for five years, you were talking about the USA team at the 2010 world cup?

    Why don't you go any buy a franchise and start your own club, similar to how you suggest fans buy a club here?


    No. It's wanting a gadget. If Samsung brought out something better, they'd buy that instead. They wouldn't give a shit about Apple.

    They might like a certain brand, but that's because they think that brand is best. They'd switch to another brand in a heartbeat if they thought it was better.

    They could resign from the league, but then they'd be out of the league with no guarantee that tv would be any more interested in paying any more for their games.

    The Scottish clubs did exactly that a few years back, to get concessions from Celtic & Rangers
  24. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

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    Of course there was a chance of a fan getting hurt --there's a chance that a bite of cupcake will get stuck in your windpipe and kill you-- but no one did. Maybe you need to watch the vids (I watched a couple youtubes of each incident just before I posted). It looks absolutely hilarious, and the fans in the ball-throwing section seem to be having a great time.

    I had intended to say in that post that they did deserve some sort of punishment, but I didn't, apparently. Still funny as hell.
  25. Numquam Moribimur

    Numquam Moribimur Member+

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    remember just wave your arms :cool:

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