The fight against modern football 3

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by Numquam Moribimur, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. Numquam Moribimur

    Numquam Moribimur Member+

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]



    carry on the fight......


  2. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    Vifvaf - Even though it is a different thread - I would still like to see where I said that police do no wrong. Thanks.
  3. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Country:
    United States
    I don't think you specifically said the police do no wrong. Your posts seemed to suggest that you believe that the police only beat people who deserve to be beaten.
  4. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    I think vifvaf's statement was that I said police do no wrong. Before I responded just wanted to see where I said that.

    Vifvaf can answer for himself.


  5. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway

    I`l see what i can do ;)
  6. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
    As CCSUltra Suggested i was refering to your comment where you said: People only get battered if there is a reason for it.
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25339814&postcount=779

    therefor i am under the impression that you automaticly would believe that the Austrian fan accused of throwing a firecracker would be guilty because the påolice said so.
    Therefor i posted this link and text:
    Austrian fan accused of throwing firecracker at former goalkeeper cleared of all charges ...after two years of trials and investigations. The judge sharply criticised the police for prejudging and unprofessional investigations.

    http://www.wienerzeitung.at/themen_c...esprochen.html


    You where also presented with the fact that police tend to hide their helmet numbers when dealing with fans by RichardL . Your answer to this was : Obviously that is unacceptable. I have never seen it. With cell phones able to record things nowadays and most people having one, I find it hard pressed for police to be that stupid.
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25340778&postcount=783


    My last example to why i would assume that you think that the polices work should not be criticized in cases where others might think otherwise is this link.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57328289/outrage-over-police-pepper-spraying-students/
    Where you can find yours and mine comment to this here:
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25345122&postcount=798
  7. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
  8. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    What I said was I never had an issue with police. Are police always innocent, probably not. I also said that if found guilty police should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The Austrian judge should have ordered an investigation by the police department to charge those officers with filing charges that weren't true.

    That doesn't mean I mistrust ALL policeman. Policeman should be trusted until proven otherwise. I have talked to many policeman/security personnel going to matches. Found them all very helpful.

    Quick story. My wife and I were at Stamford Bridge. She told one of the stewards that I was a big fan of one of the Fulham players. He was an American international. The steward went and got his boss. My wife said was there a way to meet the American player. Steward's boss said unfortunately no. But, they come by bus and after the game walk down a landing to the bus. We went behind the stadium, saw the player and yelled to him. He came over and chatted with us for a few minutes.

    Whenever we go to London, my wife likes horses, the police on horseback always let her pet their horse for a few minutes.

    When we go to a game I always have a backpack. When I open it the security personnel give it a cursory look. I want them to search it more than they want to do it.


    These are examples: I wasn't trying to light a flare, yell at someone how their team is rubbish, pour a beer on someone or other boorish behavior.
  9. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
    What is the point of your heartbreaking stories ? My point was that you seem to deny the fact because of your personal experiences.
  10. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    If you read. I say all police are not always doing the right thing. If, they are caught breaking the law - they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In the Austrian case ( couldn't read in German) - the police should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    I was just trying to show MY experience. Police and stewards aren't the bad guys. They have the difficult job of keeping the peace.

    What is your issue with them?

    As I said, I wasn't trying to light a flare, pick a fight, pour beer on someone. Potowomack was right, most restrictions in the stands are due to fans being stupid. Didn't wear a Fulham jersey at Stamford Bridge.

    Please read for comprehension!
  11. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    Why are you hating on my stories? Just because I am not throwing a molotov cocktail at police, doesn't mean I am not enjoying myself. I know that They don't fit your agenda, but you don't have to be a hater!
  12. garnislitton

    garnislitton New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Location:
    Manhattan Beach, CA
    Club:
    Wisla Kraków SSA
    Country:
    Argentina
  13. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
    Haha. Don`t be so touchy :rolleyes: Not hating your stories.
    We talked about police your naive view on police missusing their position.
    And you give examples of your wife patting police horses .
    In no way do i think all police or security personell have a "bad" agenda.On the contrary. But some do . And therefor i think it is important to acknowledge that it can be a problem in some cases.
    Personally i do not have any bad experiences with law and order. So no issue. Only beeing precautionary .
  14. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    All police have my cooperation and respect. Until they prove otherwise

    As I have said, the police we have come into casual contact with have been very cooperative with us. I have seen where police are using their horses for crowd control turning them sideways (just to break up the crowd a little bit) they have always allowed my wife to pet and talk to their horses. Could very easily deny her that. They are working and it is an important job. They ask where we are from and how long are we going to be there.

    So do you agree with Potowomack that most restriction in Europe on fans is because of fan stupidity.
  15. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
    Ok good for you. If everyone is happy thats great. I do think we are visualizing two quite different situations or arenas for the same topic. I think you might get a different angle of the topic if you where in some other shoes. But ok.

    As to Potowomack comment . I find it to be stigmatization of fans . And i would like to see some facts to back it up. What involves most restriction in Europe on fans ?
  16. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
  17. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    You are right. If I was lighting a flare, throwing a molotov cocktail on the pitch, in a fight with another fan. Those are different arenas alright.

    If I was doing those things: I would deserve what I get.

    How is it two different situations or arenas for the same topic?
  18. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    What about the separation of supporters? Obviously if they didn't need to be seperates, they wouldn't be. Why the use of stewards and police to seperate the two.
  19. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
    To compare lighting a flare to throwing a molotov is a bit strong ? or ?

    You talk about patting a police horse and i for example corteo.
  20. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2001
    How is it two different situations or arenas?
  21. guignol

    guignol Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Location:
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Country:
    France
    i think this would be a very nice thread if at least one of the posts was on subject. i'll try to find time this afternoon!
  22. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
  23. BBBulldog

    BBBulldog Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Location:
    Dinamo Zagreb
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    Croatia
    Possible ban on all away travel in Croatia because of flares.

    Which would be awesome because every major group said they would put away supporters on their stand.
  24. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
    Swedish fans keep fighting for their terraces .

    [​IMG]

    Pro accessibility and positive fan culture.
    terraces reduction - No thank you.
  25. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Country:
    Norway
    The club board of Feyenoord want to have seats with a personal number in some stands. On some gates there is this seats with a number (stoelnummering). But now they want to bring the numbered seats to the stands with fanatic fans. Saying it's something they have to do. But it seems like Feyenoord made wrong appointments with the city Rotterdam. They want to try this to make the stadium more safe, so they can get a new stadium... And they want it so bad they come with this kind of nonsense and lie to the supporters. The FSV (supporters club) asked supporters on the stands where the seats with numbers are coming the next season. It's not the most fanatic stands of the stadium but it's about the gates next to the away gate. Turned out 89% was against this measure. So Feyenoord fans made different banners and hanged it the next home match against Excelsior Rotterdam that was played on 14-04-2012.

    89% is against seats with personal numbers.
    [​IMG]

    Yes, Atmosphere. No, seats with personal numbers.

    [​IMG]

    Yes to a comfortable Kuip atmosphere. Against more seats with personal numbers.

    [​IMG]

Share This Page