The Ex- Thread: Former Crew Legends, Rejects, Has-beens, and Never-was-es.

Is it possible to disagree with a gay life style but not hate gays? Honest question.

 

what's a gay lifestyle?

 

This tRR conversation is making me nervous to say anything. Can't we all just be happy that the young man seems to have peace of mind and is optimistic about his future?

 

So in that context I don't get the question. Doesn't being gay define your lifestyle, so is it possible to differentiate?

It's almost like saying you can be gay, but don't be gay about it.

 

when you say happy you mean gay (in the old school sense of the word)?

 

I'm straight, but listen to a lot of '80s British synth-pop. Gay lifestyle?????

(see signature)

 

Wow. This is almost verbatim from a debate I got into with a college buddy of mine about the concept of being "born gay" vs. having an affliction. He is a staunch conservative Roman Catholic (still thinks that Mass should be in Latin, etc), who believes that being gay is a disease like being addicted to porn, or being an alcoholic. He called it "Same Sex Attraction" or "SSA". It was ok to have SSA, as long as you didn't act on it. So, the moral of the story that I took from it was..... "Go ahead and be gay if you want to. That's fine. Just don't act gay. That's not ok."

 

I am struggling to get past this. I so much want to make a "two out of three ain't bad" joke.

 

As a long time BigSoccer lurker, I've finally created an account because, quite honestly, this post (among others) has irked me.

To add an additional perspective to this conversation...
I'm gay. I didn't choose to be this way, I can promise you that. Some days, I don't want to be this way. For the past several years I've wished, prayed, hoped, that I could just be “normal”, have a wife and live happily ever after. But it hasn't worked. I still struggle with it and sometimes it gets wearisome and depressing when life should be enjoyable. If it's a choice, why would I put myself through this when I could just be straight?

What is he afraid of? Probably what I'm afraid of. The fear that the family and friends you hold close to your heart might reject you or begin to look at you differently, thus the relationships you cherish might never be the same, whether explicitly or implicitly. The fear that he'll be shunned, made fun of and treated unfairly because of the atmosphere of his (former) profession – similar to what I deal with as I'm in the military where gay jokes/putdowns and homophobia are common. The fear that society will look at you different and judge you because of who you love, not on your merits – disregarding any good works you've done, disregarding the person that you are, and disregarding your experiences and feelings. The fear of knowing that if you're not honest with yourself and with others about who you are, that the only result is the long, dark road of despair, depression, denial and hurt.

I was a staunch conservative and a devout Christian, but after years and years of hearing the message that homosexuals are pushing their ideology and that marriages and families are under attack, I became tired of feeling guilty about something I had no choice over. There are much more pressing issues in the world. As has been noted, people are not celebrating the fact that he's gay, but the fact that he doesn't have to live a lie and hide who he truly is from the world. I can't wait until the day when that celebration is no longer needed because of the acceptance of society, family and friends.

As with any viewpoint, way of life, belief, etc., there are always going to be those who have an ideology and hope to press it on others. I, and I suspect many gays, don't. Judging every gay on the actions of those that are extremely vocal and visible, is the same thing as saying that all Christians are bigots because of the actions of Westboro. It's not true. My mantra is “live and let live”. All I want is equality. If I marry someone of the same sex, it has no effect on you or anyone else whatsoever. Actually, there is only one effect that would occur; that is to those people who are so against gay marriage (and consumed by it) that their “failure” to prevent it and perceived societal downfall would eat at them and preoccupy them from making a difference with real issues. Saying that gays want “special rights” by being able to marry when civil unions are available, smacks of condescension and a lack of compassion. I don't completely agree with the comparison that the fight for gay marriage is akin to the civil rights movement – though there are parallels and the comparison between gay marriage and interracial marriage is correct -- but it is a glaring, saddening and unjust inequality that needs to be corrected in a country that proclaims to be free and tolerant.

As a fellow human being, I beg you and anyone else who opposes gay marriage and sees homosexuality as a choice and ideology to not hide behind theology, complex philosophical arguments, history nor an “us vs. them” mentality, and examine your conscience and ask yourselves if stereotyping and denying marriage to a group is truly right and just. I realize I'm probably not going to change the opinion of anyone, but my hope is that I've given someone food for thought that will lead to change whether personal or interpersonal; a catalyst that will lead to the end of this bickering, inequality and will lift this burden that society has placed on the shoulders of those who are in this personal struggle.

As for Robbie Rogers, I wish him the best of luck in all of his endeavors, and thank him for the example he has set in being courageous.

 

Soccer, anyone?

 

Sebastian Rozental?

 

No. I still want his sisters' phone numbers.

 

On a sidenote, has anyone heard from Passionary? I mean, now that their favorite player has retired, how are they taking the news?

 

Que? Is he gay? I always thought that he was kind of lazy in staying out of shape so long but he did have talent. Fortunately we got Guille in early 07 and the chunky Chilean has been largely forgotten.

I think the case for gay marriage vs civil unions is largely meritless but also think that is more a matter of politics which has its own thread, unfortunately now locked. I'm not questioning anyone's personal experience but on the gay-from-birth vs choice issue, there are gay people on both sides. I wouldn't say that one side is more "authentic" than the other. The left generally, and gay left in particular, tries to manufacture consensus and enforce conformity. What's funny about it are the periodic sharp reversals of position. So today the politically correct view is that people are born gay. Fifty years ago that was evidence that homosexuality was a genuine mental disorder. Twenty five years ago, the PC view was that homosexuality was a lifestyle choice that deserved as much respect as any other. Twenty five years from now if there are gene therapies that promise to "cure" homosexuality, there will be opponents of those therapies, whether they work or not. The PC view then will be that being gay is a choice and we'll be back to "not that there's anything wrong with that". And life goes on.

 

I facetiously brought up Rozental b\c this is the "former Crew legends" thread and he's one of the more forgettable recent Crew players. Just trying to ease the tension, baby.

 

Like I was afraid of, this whole thread has degenerated into a pro/anti gay discussion. Precipitated in part first by a number of pro-gay posts. Now we are hitting the whole religion issue--which we were asked *not* to do. Look if the politics thread is a no go, this should be too. That's why I made my original point. I come here to talk soccer.

But I am frustrated as tolerance has been redefined as requiring total acceptance if not active approval of another's choice--or you are a "hater". I have a problem with that. That's a one way street and is not tolerance. If folks want to have this discussion, fine. But could it *please* be *elsewhere* and not muck up this thread. At a certain point gay or straight is NSR: Non Soccer Related. Just like red state/blue state.

Look, I'll try to put this in other terms. Say a player "came out" as vegan. To then permit paens to vegan lifestyle and then prohibit a Jewish guy talking about kosher meat in the discussion because it's "religious" would be silly. Now *I*'m being a bit silly with that analogy--but it's to make a point. This has gotten way out of hand. The discussion is valid. As is any political or religious discussion. The place is not.

 

You can't divest yourself from this crucial dialogue. All opinions and viewpoints are needed. Everyone has a different upbringing and a different life experience. In order to come to a societal resolution all viewpoints need to be heard and available evidence examined from the left and the right no matter how offensive, only then will society be able to come to a general consensus.

If you withhold your experience and opinions based on that experience then you are doing everyone an injustice.