The European Union News Thread

Discussion in 'International News' started by Nico Limmat, Nov 4, 2009.

  1. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Well after 18 years of Tory rule something good must have come out of NL government or they wouldn't have won 3 straight GE. That is beside the point the Iraq war debacle and Blair push for that along with his right wing policies hurt his party in the long run. I agree a return it old labour of the early 1980s is not the right solution and moving left is the way to go. How far do you see the LD support falling from 23% to what 10% in 2015 GE.
     
  2. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  3. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    40% of Labour MPs did not vote for the war. It was only passed because the Tories supported it, almost to a man. Not excusing the leadership, but it was a highly contentious issue within Labour.

    Which specific right wing policies hurt the Labour party? They certainly moved to be more pro-business, but socially they didn't shift that much (if at all).

    I would expect the Lib Dems to poll around 10-12%. They'll retain tactical support in Lib Dem/Tory marginals, but it will collapse elsewhere. Their polling for the Euro elections is even worse - 6% at the last count.
     
  4. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I meant right wing in the sense of neoliberal economic policy deregulation and privatization. Under tony Blair the gap between rich and poor and income inequality greatly expanded. Blair by pushing labour to the right shifting the entire British electorate rightward since 1997. Yes many labour backbenchers were anti-war but Blair, brown and party leaders took Britain Into the war like lapdogs that hurt labour IMO profoundly. Of course the Tories supported it this is the same party who thought it was grand to take back useless islands 6k miles way to show relevant Britain was to the world.
     
  5. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    There's a pretty good article on Blair's leanings and legacy here.
    Blair's first term was quite radical, although he has said he wished he had done more with his large majority, and the real economic shift (largely in embracing PFI) came around during his second term.
     
  6. BobanFan

    BobanFan Member+

    Jun 28, 2007
    Club:
    AC Milan
    The Tories were completely unelectable in that timeframe.

    Has Brown ever said anything about the Iraq war? I don't ever seem to remember him making any case for it at all.
     
  7. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    BobanFan repped this.
  8. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Good article. His rightward shift since 2001 was troubling and surprising to say the least his first term was bold. However is forever buryin
    Agreed IDS, Hague and Howard were horrid alternatives too conservative and right wing at that time. Brown was for the Iraq war he didn't have to say anything because that was not within his realm to say anything still voted for it and backed up Blair for the war.
     
  9. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    No-one was going to stop Labour in 2001.
    Hague would have run them a lot closer in 2005 had he stayed on, and Labour were beatable. He was electable, but in charge at the wrong time. IDS was the real rightward lurch and a walking disaster. Howard was a short term fix to get past Blair to allow them to prepare for 2010.
     
  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, I don't actually believe that, tbh. Yeah... accusing a politician of lying... shocking, eh?! :D

    In the past I've heard comments that, during private conversations, one of the reason he didn't want to spend any money on equipment was because he wouldn't spend money on 'Tony Blair's war'.

    As to why he says that now, I think the answers simple... what's he going to say?

    It's not like you spilled a pint on someone's coat in the pub, is it. This was a WAR, ffs! You can't say, 'Oh, I accidentally started a major military conflagration which led to the deaths of tens thousands of people... ooops, MY BAD :)'

    But I honestly think that, if Brown had been the PM at the time, there is very little chance we'd have followed the yanks into Iraq.

    Fact is, Blair and Brown had made an agreement about the leadership and Blair handing over at some point. Without coming out and publicly saying Iraq would be a mistake, (which is what Brown SHOULD have done, obviously), it wouldn't actually make any difference. Strictly speaking, it might not have made any difference even THEN as Blair could have reshuffled him and, although it would be embarrassing, it might still have gone ahead. As you say, the tories were always up for a fight... well, one that involves someone else fighting it, of course :(

    However, if Brown had done that, it would likely have meant the end of his chance to become PM.

    It's a bit like Robert McNamara once said about the Americas nuclear guarantee to Britain. He said he'd been asked, on many occasions, to confirm that, if Russia attacked the UK with nuclear weapons, the USA would respond, even IF they hadn't been attacked themselves and, when he'd been asked, he'd always said, 'Yes!'

    But he went on to say that simply being asked and confirming it in that way was, frankly, ludicrous. There's a small matter of what's normally called 'Realpolitik', (reality, IOW), and, in truth, there's no WAY to know what they'd do in those circumstances.

    That, to me, says, they'd do nothing... but then, I'm a cynic, so... ;)
     
  11. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The EU entire purpose was to integrate Europe into a superstate. Economically, political and military a untied states of Europe ruled from Brussels essential by Germany. There are positives and negatives for all member nations. The UK is being overwhelmed by immigration from the EU 200k immigrants in 2013 no less then during the labour years when NL allowed an open door policy of mass immigration. Not that it's a bad thing overall it's a good thing. But the anger, discontent, rage that a large segment of the British public Are feeling toward immigration is connect to a anti-EUsentiment. If a country cannot even dictate their own immigration laws how is it free....
     
  12. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I agree.

    Well, Im slightly biased since Im all in favour of UKIP. I like them cause they are serious about implementing Otto von Bismarck's 19th century policy of isolating Britain. :whistling:
     
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  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    You saw Henning Wehn on 'Have I Got News For You' as well, eh?

    :D

    Edit: That guy's Britain's favourite German :)

    Edit 2: Although, to be clear, it ain't much of a horse race :(

    :giggle:
     
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  14. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    PFI's have been a disaster. One of the major advantages of government is you have more or less unlimited access to capital.
     
  15. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I love him, wanted to see him in Edinburgh but he was sold out. :(
     
  16. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It's been expanding since about 1980, in the US and Australia too. There was a book published about it a few years ago called the Spirit Level, unfortunately one of their big ideas on how to tackle inequality in the book was Co-Operatives, as a member of the Co-Op I can inform everybody that method itself has problems.
     
  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, I'm with smile banking and have some of my savings in the Britannia BS. Just relying on the government guarantee at this point.

    The problem was the people voted in to run it being asleep on the job :(
     
  18. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    He's totally unknown in the fatherland. But youtube helps you a lot.:thumbsup: I recommend Michael Mittermeier. Stadium filling shows. Presenting his new programs on primetime tv wasnt enough. For years now hes travelling the world(New York, Capetown, Toronto and recently Edinburgh and London). He's from where I live and I think the Bavarian dialect makes him even more entertaining.
     
  19. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeeaahh....that clips not helping the stereotype.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would think the French would want to have a say.
     
  21. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The fact is that most modern stand-up comedy is observational comedy and that revolves around truths we all recognise... often things that don't work as they should or human imperfections of one sort or another. Most stuff in Germany just kinda works and, if it doesn't, they fix it.



    To see the best observational comedy you're better advised seeing people who recognise things aren't quite as they should be and yet do nothing about it.



    :D
     
  22. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The French are there henchman.
     
  23. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Unfortunately Hollande and Sarkozy before him have accepted to be Merckel's puppet so far.
     
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the French would just agree to do what Germany tells them, the EU would be in much better shape.

    Agricultural Policy would be much better at the very least.
     
  25. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    If by 'what Germany tells them to do' you mean more austerity then this is exactly what the French government does as shown by the latest governmental decisions, even if that means more recession, a risk of deflation and a high % of unemployment (and not only for France).
    I don't blame the Germans -after all they protect their own interests- but the successive French governments that have gone against their country interests since way too long.
     

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