The European Union News Thread

Discussion in 'International News' started by Nico Limmat, Nov 4, 2009.

  1. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Highly efficient in governing, they produce more regulations than most other political bodies in the world, with a much smaller number of staff.

    I don't think it's the fault of the idea of an EU, very well of the people active in it though. But those are semantics.

    An MEP gets less money than an MdB (but much more than the members of the Spanish parliament). Agree on the democratic deficit, lack of transparancy and lack of accountability, and the general horribleness that are the members of the commission. I doubt a full reboot would solve those, though.
     
  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yes, it's perfectly obvious that the countries that have suffered most from the banking crisis, (and particularly the euro crisis), will feel aggreived. Nobody can expect places like Greece and Spain NOT to have a backlash against the EU institutions.

    The fact that they weren't bothered when everything was going swimmingly is beside the point.
     
  3. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    That in itself is kinda scary though, don't you think? I want any governing body to produce only as many regulations as absolutely necessary and as little as possible.

    To me, productivity in administration is not about producing as much paperwork as possible, but rather about smart management. I would think that people would be more in favor of the EU if it did LESS.

    It's certainly not the fault of the idea, but of the actual implementation.

    I've read somewhere that an MEP earns quite a bit more, maybe it includes bonuses or travel costs/rents which they need in their various places of work. But it's not that important anyway. Let's just say that neither of them has to fear poverty.

    As for a full reboot, it certainly wouldn't guarantee anything. But one would think that a next generation of politicians would learn from the mistakes of the failed previous experiment. Then again, history doesn't necessarily support that...
    But as I said, I'm not in favor of a full reboot, because the only way it will happen is through a collapse that we all don't want to live through. What I am saying however is that if we don't fix the many problems of the EU (economic, financial and democratic deficiencies), then this implosion will be inevitable.
     
  4. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Dear EU citizens,

    finally, we have a GroKo. Our fellow South Europeans might not like to hear Wolfgang Schäuble is likely to stay finance minister. The portfolio handling euro politics therefore stays conservative.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Actually, they probably should like it. Schäuble has often been called "the last European". He is basically continuing Helmut Kohl's pro-EU policy. He might be conservative, but he's also an avid European.
     
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  6. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Still, at least if the finance and politics shindig doesn't work out at least they'll have their good looks to fall back on... :giggle::p
     
  7. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Well, I think Manuela Schwesig (on the top with the pink background) is actually is kinda cute...which (at the risk of sounding sexist) I'm pretty sure is her main qualification.
     
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  8. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #3408 White/Blue_since1860, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
    But she perfectly fits into the regional/proportional representation thing: East German, female, young, blond, attractive.

    I mean "you govern with your eyes first!"

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Fair point fellas... s'only a joke :)
     
  10. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think partly the idea of too much regulation is a myth (fostered by tabloid newspapers), partly it is due to stupid politicians (not smart to send people that are on the 'abstellgleis' into the commission, I think most political parties have learned that lesson by now - exceptions like the olive oil directive are given). That said, personally I am more in favour of taxing things than banning things (like classical light bulbs), and more in favour of transparancy and empowerement rather than direct regulations, but it is not like the national governments have a much better track record of being immune to lobbyism or preventing stupid laws (think website blocking, Leistungsschutzrecht, DB's monopoly, Youtube blocking, the rampant filesharing industry in Germany)...

    Yep.

    Arguably, especially when they come from smaller countries, they do need to travel more as well (if they do their job alright). If you have time try to look at transparent MEPs and their work like Jan Philip Albrecht, Amelia Andersdotter or Marietje Schaake.

    Not sure, I think a reboot could be done without a full crash. Look at the situation in Ukraine for example.
     
  11. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The tories are adding to the gaiety of nations with their latest shenanigans...

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/12/brussels-slaps-down-threats-immigration

    It came as the Sunday Telegraph said 95 Tory MPs had written to the prime minister demanding parliament must be given the power to veto every aspect of EU law. Backbenchers led by Bernard Jenkin want the government to reverse the spread of human rights law, relieve businesses of red tape from Brussels and regain control over immigration.

    Great stuff :)
     
  12. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Looks like it was designed by the Lib-Dems...

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Isn't there supposed to be a piece of cheese at the end of those charts?
     
  15. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  16. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A very good commentary article on the implications of the upcoming local and European elections in Greece: http://ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite3_1_03/02/2014_537015

    It is widely agreed in the polls that SYRIZA will win these elections, it is only a matter of how much. The biggest point to take out of the article is the possibility that a big enough loss (the article implies that it is >4%) could cause the government to call for an early national election. There are some polls that put SYRIZA ahead by more than this amount, but most of them have them just short of it.
     
  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Hard to tell... I don't think anyone knows where the end is :D
     
  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    From that article...

    Predicting the position that the country’s partners and creditors will adopt depending on the outcome is also interesting. If Samaras finds himself neck and neck with Tsipras he might have a good chance of claiming a considerable debt deal and a new supervision model in June. If he loses with a small difference it will be hard to move on with the prerequisites for a final deal with the lenders. If he loses by a considerable percentage the partners will keep their cards close, or do some serious hedging, knowing that they will face Tsipras at the negotiating table. In this case they will say, “Nothing for Greeece until we find out what happend politically and who our interlocutor is.”

    Maybe he can form a currency union with the Scottish nationalists...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26183687

    Scotland's first minister has accused the three main UK parties of "bluff, bluster and bullying" over their opposition to a currency union with an independent Scotland.

    Alex Salmond was speaking after UK Chancellor George Osborne said a vote for Scottish independence would mean walking away from the pound.

    Mr Osborne's position was echoed by Labour and the Liberal Democrats.

    But Mr Salmond said the move would "backfire spectacularly".

    The referendum on Scottish independence will be held on 18 September, with voters being asked the Yes/No question: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

    In a statement made in Edinburgh on Thursday morning, Mr Osborne said: "If Scotland walks away from the UK, it walks away from the UK pound."

    The chancellor also released a report from the most senior civil servant at the Treasury, Sir Nicholas Macpherson, which said currency unions were "fraught with difficulty".
     
  19. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I hope for Syriza to win with a slight majority. I guess governmental responsibility is the best way to debunk such movements. Just because they could get into goverment everything is supposed to change? Lol. We just need to look at the clown's movement in Italy. Or at her face:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is a brief summary of the SYRIZA platform for those who are unfamiliar with it. Keep in mind that SYRIZA has historically been a coalition of democratic socialists and communists:

    - Though 30% of the party voted against this position (it is the growing left-wing of the party), SYRIZA has left off the table the idea of leaving the Euro. Most Greek left-wing parties are against Euro membership and some are also against EU membership, so this is the main differentiation between SYRIZA and the rest of the left wing and really has been the reason they are able to obtain support a faction of centrist voters.

    - They propose a cancellation and reversal of nearly all austerity measures.

    - They want the government to take a harder stance on fascist parties. They encourage a shakedown of the police (which >50% of them voted for Golden Dawn) and a purge of fascists from its ranks.

    - They propose that all businesses that fail to pay their workers' wages for a certain time be allowed to be taken over collectively by the workers. This has already happened once in Greece.

    Odds are, if the election were to be held today they would have just short of a majority. This would force them to either form a coalition with a party to their left, KKE (probably never going to happen) or to their right, Democratic Left (possible, but not likely with enough numbers for a majority). They could also go for a minority government, which would still allow them to implement much of their platform, since they can find support from other parties on most of these things. If they don't, there will simply be a second election which would probably allow them to govern on their own.
     
  21. BobanFan

    BobanFan Member+

    Jun 28, 2007
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Won't that just mean a lot of collectively owned bankrupt businesses?
     
  22. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In many situations yes (it would be an option rather than an automatic transfer), however in some cases like the firm VioMe that I have linked the workers have found a way to turn things around and expand the business.

    There is also the possibility of simply transferring the property over to a separate entity which the workers own, so they do not have to deal with the debts.
     
  23. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    That's just wishful thinking though, isn't it. And it's dangerous to boot. The creditors won't just accept that and the ECB already said that they'll only help those countries that submit to the austerity program.

    So while Greece could certainly do so unilaterally, it has default written all over it. And they can't even debase their currency to cope with a default without leaving the Euro.

    Granted, a default would be the most honest, most direct way to deal with Greece's financial problems and it probably should have happened a long time ago, but without its own currency, it would lead to large scale suffering and hardship, far beyond anything that has happened so far. The currency would still be overvalued and Greece therefore not attractive to foreign (or domestic) private investors, while all public spending would simply cease for a lack of funds.

    A default while remaining within the Euro zone would quite seriously be begging for a civil war.
    Syriza's calculation might be that the EU won't let it come to this, and while that may be the case, I think it's too much of a gamble to hold your own population hostage. The message is basically this: "Unless you hand over more money indefinitely, we'll push the self destruct button."
     
  24. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think there is a choice where Greece defaults and remains in the Euro zone. If Tsipras is the man at the negotiating table it will either be that the money will come unconditionally; or it is tied to stimulus and GDP growth metrics rather than deficit reduction ones; or Greece will default and exit the Euro. And after seeing the deep political, societal and economic problems austerity has brought to Greece and with no empirical evidence that things are turning around, Syriza would have all the leverage in the world right now to do this.

    Sure they can default, sure they can also exit the Euro (the ~30-40% which make up Syriza's Communist Platform faction support this and pretty much every other left-wing party in Greece does as well), and yes this will hurt them in the short term. But it will also have massive repercussions throughout the Eurozone. If Greece rejects austerity and defaults, who's to say the other debtor nations won't consider it?
     
  25. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Ok, it sounded to me from your original post that they want to spend without any conditions and simultaneously keep the Euro, which would lead to disaster.

    I find it ironic that it's the political left of all people who would advocate such a step. It goes to show the failure of the free-market parties across Europe who all bowed down to centralism and special interest.

    And well they should. The only problem is that they should have done so years ago, before European taxpayers took the financial risk off the creditors. Now, it'll be a mess no matter how it ends. Although being the realist (cynic?) I am, I cannot see that happening any time soon. Without knowing very much about them, my guess would still be that even if Syriza should gain an absolute majority in Greece, they'll eventually do the exact same thing as their predecessors. That's just the way politics seems to play out these days.
     

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