The Did you know thread. Uselss, but Fascinating historical facts and stories)

Discussion in 'History' started by Excape Goat, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. Dyvel

    Dyvel Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    The dog end of a day gone by
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
  2. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I doubt that it was, because the incident is way too complicated to do justice to in brief.

    The text of the order cannot be denied:
    1. The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.
    2. Post commanders will see to it that all of this class of people be furnished passes and required to leave, and any one returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from headquarters.
    3. No passes will be given these people to visit headquarters for the purpose of making personal application of trade permits.[8]
    The problem however was real-- substantial risks were being incurred by the military to protect individuals engaged in trade both with and without appropriate permissions, and performing such trade well outside the guidelines set down for them. People were trading munitions for cotton, horses for cotton, specie for cotton, and nullifying the blockade and supplying the Confederate army by so doing, and Senators and Congressmen and Governors were issuing permissions and requisitioning protection for them. Riverboats intended for the transport of troops, munitions, or rations were comandeered by traders to transport illegally acquired cotton on more than one occasion.

    Grant was not alone in seeing the planning and capitalizing of this process as in some way "Jewish," and it seems to have come to a head when his own father showed up at his headquarters requesting his assistance in making his fortune in the company and under the influence of an individual who apparently was of Hebraic extraction.

    It is worth digressing to point out that ethnic identities were far more closely aligned with ocupations in 1860 than 1910 or 1960; an Irish american was very likely a laborer, a German or Polish american a farmer, a Scand or French Canadian a lumberjack; there were a surprising number of Argentinian americans, and 99.9% of them were cattlemen, and 90% of them in Florida. A Jew in America was probably 70-80% of the time a merchant falling somewhere between" lumpenproletariat" and "capitalist."

    Grant snapped, had the order written, and signed it probably without considering all its implications.
    Among other things, it would not have occurred to him that he was creating leverage for bigots in his organization to oppress people for no good reason.

    I imagine he didn't see a better way to achieve what he wanted, and knew it would be countermanded quickly-- but after he had cleared all the riffraff out from underfoot. Remember that communications were slow and irregular then, and the people who he wanted to keep out would quickly become aware of the order, but only slowly become aware that it had been lifted. He could pretty much count on such an order buying him several months at least.

    He probably did not expect his juniors to expel resident families, and it is worth noting that the camps were home to a legion of legitimate sutlers many of whom were Jewish, who were not expelled or disturbed in any way; suggesting that Grant intended that his order be used to deal with the problematic members of the group rather than the group itself, and that those closest to him understood the intent.

    It is not a thing to be counted to his credit, but it is somewhat understandible in context...
     
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  3. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Here's one I just stumbled upon. Semmes of the Alabama and Winslow of the Kearsarge were cabin mates in the fleet before Vera Cruz 20 years earlier.

    Given the complete disparity in their personalities-- the voluptuary and the Puritan-- that must have been awkward.
     
  4. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    The Grant/Jew story is covered by Foote. Its when he was in the West, before Shilo, IIRC.
     
  5. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Shiloh was in April of 1862; there wasn't anything for war profiteers to be profiting on yet.

    The order was issued in December of 1862.
     
  6. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great post. I'd only add that after his election, Grant apparently learned from his mistake, apologized for the Order, and by all accounts, his apology was genuine.

    http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/25877/Despite_Expulsion_Order_Grant_In/
     
  7. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just got into this thread, and decided to respond only because of the lack of recent activity in the history subforum.

    You should see the conversation Ben Franklin once had with his gout. I had to read this in high school.

    Just a guess, but I see a possibility: Turkey.

    Officially they were neutral, and signed non-aggression treaties with Nazi Germany after they took over Eastern Europe. But when they began to retreat out of the Soviet Union in 1943, they got closer to England again. They were part of Cairo II in 1943, and discussed contributing to the Allies at that time.

    They didn't officially join the Allies until Yalta, and then only because the U.S. required a state of war against Germany or Japan by 1 March 1945 as a pre-requisite for charter membership in what became the United Nations. But it's within the realm of possibility that they could've allowed the U.S. to conduct D-Day exercises over Eastern Europe from Istanbul, which is only 315 miles from Ploiesti.
     
  8. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu

    I believe when Ploesti was first bombed in '43 Italy hadn't been captured. The bombers flew from North Africa. US & British troops didn't land on mainland Italy until Sep '43. I think their range was somewhere between 1000 & 1500 miles.
     
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  9. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Transcript of Bretton Woods Conference Found at Treasury - N.Y. Times
    Acting Secretary of State Dean Acheson...
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dyvel

    Dyvel Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    The dog end of a day gone by
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
  11. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Code Found on Pigeon Baffles British Cryptographers - N.Y. Times
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    One of the most sought after Leica cameras were the ones produced during the Nazi era for the German army. You can easily find fake copies of Leica's with the swastika, the eagle, etc. for sale.

    Ironically, the Leitz family was a protector of Jewish people during the War. They did not want any publicity for their herotic effect. The story of the Leica Freedom Train was relatively unknown.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_Freedom_Train
     
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  13. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Everyone must know that George Washington led the American people to victory over the British colonialists and became the father of the United States of America. However, not many people knew that one of his ex-slaves also led a rebellion against the British in another colony.

    In 1775, Lord Dunmore, the loyalist governor of Virginia promised freedom for slaves who left their master and joined his British forces. Henry Washington, a slave owned buy George Washington, answered his call and joined the Black Loyalists. The Black Loyalists fought for the British throughout the war. After the War, some of the Black Loyalists were evacuated to Nova Scotia and founded a settlement there. In 1790, some of them left Nova Scotia for Sierra Leone and resettled in a new British colony there. Harry Washington was among them.

    Around 1800, a group of ex-slaves from America attempted an uprising against thje British colonalists in Sierra Leone. Henry Washington was one of the leaders.


    http://www.blackloyalist.info/washington-s-revolution-harry-that-is-not-george/
     
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  14. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Mark Twain was born on the day of the appearance of Halley's Comet in 1835, and died on the day of its next appearance in 1910. He himself predicted this in 1909, when he said: "I came in with Halley's Comet in 1835. It is coming again next year, and I expect to go out with it."
     
  15. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The William F-1 team was sponsored by the Bin laden group(see bottom right).
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Bin Laden Group is a huge construction company, it still oversees vast development projects in Saudi.
     
  17. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yes, I know. The story of the bin laden family was well-covered by the news media after 911. They are well-connected around the world and Osama used his family connection to build and fund the al-Qaeda.
     
  18. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Ernst Hanfstaengl was Harvard-educated German businessman who was an intimate of Hitler before falling out of favor in the 1930's. At Harvard, he was a cheerleader who played the piano at Harvard football games and wrote several fight songs for the football team. He claimed that "Sieg Heil" came from "Harvard, Harvard, Harvard, rah, rah, rah."

    After graduation in 1909, Hanfstaengl moved to NYC where he became acquainted with FDR at the New York Harvard Club. He later returned to Germany in the 1920's where he became a close friend of Hitler. Hitler became his son's godfather. His sister was rumored to be Hitler's lover . After the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler sought refuge in his home. He fell out of favorite in 1930's and escaped to the UK. Supposingly, hsi friend FDR saved him from POW camp.
     
  19. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I've often wondered if his story was somewhere at the root of the impulse that led Vonnegut to write "Mother Night."
     
  20. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    He played piano at the football games?

    I actually convinced some people at a party once that my high school was so sophistcated that our fight song was Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings," and in fact our marching band had a string section consisting of violins and violas, and that this made it easy when we added girls sports to nickname them the "Valkyries" and to use Wagner for their fight song.

    But anyway... Piano at football games?
     
  21. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I read it years ago and I thought it was Tokyo Rose. I don't really know about Tokyp Rose.

    I might have misunderstood. I only knew that he was a cheerleader and a pianoist at Harvard. He wrote some fight songs for Harvard and he claimed to borrow ideas and/or music from Harvard Pep Rally for Nazi rally. I spent a long time googling him and Harvard fight songs.... I did wonder if he wrote some of the more famous ones.
     
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  22. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The US won the Davis Cup in 1914. The team included Dick Williams and Karl Behr. Both opf them were Titanic survivors. The pair met for the first time on board the Carpathia, the ship that picked up the Titanic survivors.

    Karl Behr was a Wimbledom double finalist in 1907. He was on board the Titanic because he was following a girl named Helen Newsom. Helen's parents disapproved their relationship. In an attempt to discourage the relationship, they tried to separate the pair by taking Helen to Europe, but Behr followed them. They must have been returning to the USA on the Titanic(I did not know their full story). Behr proposed to Miss Newsom on the lifeboat and the parents supposingly accepted him. I read that parts of their love story became one of the inspiration for the movie Titanic.

    Dick Wiliiams was a Switzerland-born American tennis player who was heading to join Harvard's tennis team. He survived by climbing onto Collapsible A Lifeboat, but his legs was so severely frostbitten that the Carpathia's doctor wanted to amputate them. Of course, he refused. Later that year, he won his first U.S. Tennis Championship(US Open), in mixed doubles. He went on to win 4 more Grand Slam titles in singles and doubles.

    Both Williams and Behr are in the Tennis Hall of Flame.
     
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  23. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    The woman who served time as Tokyo Rose, Iva Toguri, lived at her family store in Chicago. (Toguri Merchantile, Belmont and Clark) For a couple decades Id go in there to look around and the old lady would sit by the door scrutinizing the shoppers. I never once saw her smile.
     
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  24. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    After being the victim of a highly public witch-trial and six years in jail, I can't say I blame her.
     
  25. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Pardoned by Carter, IIRC.
     

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