The coaching: Brazil Post Game discussion [R]

Re: Ryan ????? [R]

I completely agree with this sentiment. We have GOT to stop looking at the starters af the top 6 div 1 schools as our only feeding pool for the national teams. We need to think/look outside the box at players who bring different skills to the game. There are creative, athletic players who may not be as polished as others, but could become that with coaching and a high level of competition. I am a west coast guy and see many players playing at maybe not hte top 10 schools who are very good and technically sound but don't get sniffs from the region/national pools because their names aren't known.... (and btw, we all know kids who are in the regional pools who are awful yet stay year in and year out while no new names come in)

Isnt this the job of our national system to go out and identify talent that is unknown? It seems like the same names keep circulating from the u-15 pool on up...you are telling me that no player outside of 45 in the nation has developed their game in the 6 years from sophomore year of high school until college? It is asinine to me that we keep looking at the same players, the same style player over and over and over and over. Athletic talent once worked. Now we need technical skills and creativity to compete with the world.

I know part of the issue is that the younger national teams are coached by college coaches who are looking out for their own programs so keep the same names around for recruitment...we need fresh eyes in our national system judging players on how they play and WHAT THEY CAN become...not what 5 schools they might end up at. We need scouts sitting at game after game of the college season watching girls develop and how they perform...instead we have "scouts" watching the same 8 teams play.

I look at Jillian at UCLA...her "recruiting" for ucla involves sending a letter out to the members of the national pool. Hey great evaluation of talant Jill. She sits and chit chats at a few club trnys a year...is she really an honest judge of who can maybe come in and surprise at the national camp? No. How will we ever see who is out there if the same players keep circulating thru?

Their was no reason KAi shouldn't have been in the national rotation long before she was. Out west, we who saw her play, knew she needed a high level of competition and could become very very good.

I am bummed about today's loss, but it is symtomatic of a larger irk of mine that we have become too formulaic in our national system and in the player we go after. We are seeing the results of lazy work by our national system.

 

Re: Ryan????? [R]

Fire him NOW!!!!
He destroyed the teams chemistry and confidence by making such an awful decision of putting Bri in. She was great in her day but had only played 5 games this year. She looked really slow on those attempts. The team came out with their heads down, and like Julie Foudy said... There was not a team out there today. They broke down and that is a direct influence of the coach. This is a team that have not lost in a long time. Their style of play have won them many many games and yet some of you want to blame the loss on the fact you think they are over rated and not a truely good team. Would you be saying that if they had beat Brazil? I don't think so. You don't as a coach do what Ryan did 48 hours before a huge game and expect that everything will be ok on the field. YOu don't sub like he did the whole tournament and expect your starters to be well rested and ready to go. And you definently don't sub more defenders in when you are loosing 2-0!!! Wake up people. He coached out of fear and ignorance and worst off... He didn't believe in his team. If your own coach doesn't believe you can win, how can you expect them just to come out there like nothing had changed. We got out coached... plain and simple
FIRE RYAN BEFORE the game Sunday!!!!!!!!

 

Re: Ryan????? [R]

I'm just beating a dead horse here and everyone has done a marvelous job of detailing the fall from grace. Seriously, I think we'll look back on this loss a few year's from now and we'll note that even though we had a 50+ win rate, we'll be able to pinpoint when stuff started to go awry.

I've lamented the keeper switch and everything else ad nauseam but I just can't understand why we didn't give players like Tarp the chance to collaborate with HAO up top. Perhaps without this dependency on Abby and Lil that these girls seem to have had drummed into them, they could get the chance to BE creative, for once.

THey're smart girls with good skills and speed in O'Reilly's case and it's ludicrous to think that they couldn't have come up with some good chances, at the very least.

They might not have been scoring machines but there would be growth and innovation when they were given the chance to use some freedom.

For a long time, the presence of veterans seemed to inspire the team but now it's hindering us in every way possible. Lilly had some good moments and for God's sakes, it's way too soon for Abby to hang up her cleats but these kids (I'm actually younger than HAO so I should probably stop calling them kids) need to be able to get out there and figure out ways to win on their own.

There's a Latin phrase that when translated, means, "I'll find a way or I'll make one" and these girls need to be exposed to that kind of trial by fire. It couldn't have been any worse than the holding pattern that we've been in this WC.

 

Re: Ryan????? [R]

From the Chicago Tribune, apparently he already has:

 

Can you imagine losing a game like that and hearing your coach utter such nonsense? Denial is an understatement for this guy. Really, if this coach gets away with this I will be severely dissapointed with Big Soccer. Make those heads roll people...


The only good thing from this WC will be when I hear that Ryan has been fired.

 

Re: Ryan????? [R]

Ah, Sunil, another Columbia professor who does what's best for his national side
With the USSF, it's Gerbils all the way down

 

This may come off as sounding sexist, but I just wanted to chime in...

Team chemistry for men's teams is about a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10. Sure, its better if everyone gets a long and plays for one another, but if two guys hate each other and wont talk, everyone else on the team will look the other way, and those two guys will still be able to do their jobs when put together on the field. Guys just dont care too much about whose friends with who.

But women care about relationships. A heck of a lot more then men. Thats a good thing, but it can make managing a group of women trickier if your not attuned to that. Because women who dont like someone dont express it by physicly fighting, they attack relationships. For women team chemsitry is more in the 6+ territory.

So to me, Ryan benching Solo was the mother of all stupid decisions. Because their is no way you bench your starting GK 5 games into the tournament and not make an enemy. Its just an enormous blow to a persons ego, to go from owning the position to having to watch from the bench. Im not sure how a person could fail to take that personally.

Now, look at Beasley and Arena. That was bad, but for the most part, those two are going to trade their shots at one another, but the rest of the team has a chance of just getting on with their business. Ryan benching Hope though I think probably broke this team into factions within an hour. And a ton of thought and energy for the entire team would be embroiled in the feud.

And, frankly, women are just meaner when they feud then men. Or at least that seems that way to me. Guys will more or less just try to beat the tar out of each other. Women though tend to try and undermine and ostracize people they don't like.

Just my take. I may be an idiot, and feel free to call me out on anything that seem terribly unenlightened.

 

I think you make valid points, Lurking.

 

Sunil Gulati is the real problem....he's a disgrace to both the men and women.

Screw Ryan, I wish THAT moron would get fired.

 

Ryan's speech to the team annoucing the change:

Hi, team. I'm glad you're gathered here for this final team dinner on the eve of the most important game most of you have ever played. I'm glad we can join one another and dine together in harmony as a team prior to such a crucial game.

I'd like to let you know that, despite the fact that she's in the middle of a scoreless streak of over three games, I've decided to bench the starting goalkeeper whom you've played with consistently for the past two years. I'm doing this in significant part based on games that were played against Brazil back during the Clinton administration.

I'd like to remind everyone that lights out is at 10:30, so please finish gossiping, bickering, flinging accusations and leaking to Julie Foudy before that time so you can be fresh for the game tomorrow. Of course, if you stay up later, don't worry. My tin ear for the players is obviously firmly in place.

 

On a lighter note, heard on Sportstalk radio today:

Caller: "Can you believe what happened in the Women's World Cup?? The idiotic coach benched his starting GK,and got beat. I never heard anything so stupid, he should be fired right away!!!!"

Host: "But it was 4-0, which is a blowout in soccer. Did it really make a difference??
I don't really know,I did not watch the game. What do you think about that??"

Caller: "I didn't watch it either."

 

I will confess that I haven't followed the WNT that closely. But how do you explain the difficulties that they had moving the ball through midfield? If you're getting swarmed like that by defenders, SOMEONE has to be open. Was this a result of a cockeyed scheme by the coaches, or poor playing?

FIFA really ought to send to Williamsburg, VA or some such place for a set of stocks, and place the referee from that match in them. There is no way Boxx fouled, much less deserved her second yellow. WTF, over???

It's like men's basketball, we can't dominate effortlessly forever. I'm not saying we should be nonchalant, but days like this are going to happen. The best team won tonight, and I feel sorry for Norway for the butt-whipping they will receive when the team's anger is taken out on them.

 

It will be interesting to see if Hope Solo's comments touch off comments from other players after they return from China. Let's all remember, these ladies play not only because it is their passion, but it also is the way they earn a living. They are professional athletes. The bumbling dope Ryan jeopardizes their careers and their opportunities through the way he has mismanaged this group on the game's biggest stage.

It would be very interesting to hear the backchannel conversations Nike is having with US Soccer. The Nike investment in the US WNT and US Soccer in general, is staggering, and this horrible result is not what they spent their money on. Nike certainly will have a substantial say in Ryan's future with the team and the US program

The team has played frustrated since the July and August build up games, and it continued all through the World Cup. The team worked on chemistry and tactical cohesion for all of 2006 and 2007 in residency, the international tournaments, and the early build up games. Early this year, the team was connected, playing good soccer that was also good to watch, and seemed to be developing as a unit. We saw new players with exciting games develop into talents that could be successful on the international level, and become a primary part of the team's success. They played a wide game, connected from the back through the midfield to the front. The strikers had room and had lots of balls to their feet. The midfielders and outside backs stretched the opponents defenders, creating opportunities. That style fit this team well.

Inexplicably, Ryan pushed them away from the technical game into a long ball game in July and Augsut. They quickly became less effective, the team was much less connected, and you could almost see a building frustration for the players. That's how Ryan took this team into China, and they failed. Certainly, the failure isn't because of a lack of talent. This team playing the right style, beat many of the better teams in the world over the last 1 1/2 years.

The game now has its best opportunity to build in the US and to take a more prominent position as a professional sport. The women's game has to be part of it. What the US needed was to come home as the best team in the world. The ineptitude of Ryan made that impossible. Singlehandedly, Ryan has cast a huge roadblock for the new women's league, which would have had a much better opportunity to thrive with a strong WC showing.

US Soccer has finally decided to invest in the game as we saw with the residency program the last few years. These ladies are entitled to be given every opportunity to succeed. Ryan has proven he neither has the skill, temperment or intuitiveness to lead the program.

Ryan needs to go.

 

Here I will make a contradictory statement, one perhaps that others may agree in part. While I am upset that we have been eliminated and how we got eliminated, there is a part of me that is relieved that we will not win this WC as it would justify keeping Ryan for the Olympics. Many have said that Brazil is just better. They were better yesterday. No doubt. But it is not as if the US team lacks talent and was not capable of beating Brazil, whether it be yesterday, today or tomorrow. Yes, there are problems with player selection, from top to bottom, with over-reliance on size and athleticism. But this team showed glimpses of being able to play control ball with short passes and when it did, they looked good. But for whatever reason, Ryan did not have them play that way. In some ways, this team reminded me of the Italia '94 side that was directed by Sacchi. A great Baggio got them to the final but the team only played one match where they showed their true ability, in the semifinal against Bulgaria. Yet, despite the talent on that side and the genius that everyone proclaimed Sacchi to be, it was one of the worst Italy teams to ever play in the WC. This US team was similar in some ways, only that they were not able to overcome their incompetent coach. And face it, the woman Baggio was wearing a yellow jersey yesterday.

The loss yesterday was frustrating in so many ways. While many of us have been upset with the way the team has been playing, there was always hope that it could overcome its shortcomings. Falling apart the way the team did yesterday, was the icing on the cake. And rightly, all of our frustrations should be at Ryan.

 

You rang?

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=ms-gregryan092807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

After watching the U.S. women's soccer team suffer the worst defeat in its illustrious history, three of the retired stars who helped build it into the world's predominant soccer power expressed dismay at the program's direction, with two of them publicly blasting the leadership of coach Greg Ryan.

For Brandi Chastain, Julie Foudy and Mia Hamm, Brazil's 4-0 thrashing of the U.S. in the World Cup semifinals Thursday was a sign that the American program has deteriorated in the three years since they appeared in their final international competition – a gold-medal effort at the 2004 Athens Olympics thanks to a narrow victory over the Brazilians.

Chastain and Foudy each told Yahoo! Sports that Ryan had failed his players on tactical and motivational levels and said they expected him to lose his job as a result.

....

"You see some of the sub patterns, and you say, 'What the hell?' " Foudy said. "You take out one of your fastest players (Heather O'Reilly) and put in a marking back (Tina Ellertson) to man-mark (Brazil star striker) Marta? If you're going to make the bold move of changing the keepers but then go ultra-conservative when you're down 2-0, as if you're in a bunker mentality, what are you doing?"

Chastain, who pushed for Heinrichs' dismissal, criticized U.S. Soccer officials for having "settled" when it came to naming a successor.

"I blame (past president) Dr. Bob Contigulia for choosing Greg as our next leader and (current president) Sunil Gulati for not seeing this coming," she said. "All presidents and leaders need to foresee what is happening in their world, and this was a terrible, terrible mistake – embarrassing and totally unnecessary.

"He (Ryan) was the fifth choice of five people, and it's too bad that we settled – or that we don't value the program enough, or women's soccer in general, to do what it takes to get the best person for the job. Clearly, to the federation, it's not priority No. 1, and from an outsider's perspective that's tough."

***********

If we're being honest, we'll admit that it would be hard to fire any coach in the middle of a (theoretical) 50-game winning streak. Nevertheless, Ryan seemed so inadequate to the task at hand, his WC Finals meltdown was not a surprise to those who have followed the USWNT closely. Could this debacle have been avoided?

 

Re: Ryan ????? [R]

RIIIIIIIIGHT

That's like saying "Let's bring Pele in to play in the 2007 Copa America since he can easily claim the title best striker ever"

Give me a f*cking break. Scurry hadn't played in more than 10 games all year, and Hope looked great after the first game in the tournament. Ryan is an idiotic moron.

 

Re: Ryan ????? [R]

I would have said moronic idiot, but I think I prefer your phrasing.

 

Re: Ryan ????? [R]

You say tomatoe, I say tomahto .....

 

This forum is giving voice to something that has concerned me since the beginning of the WC: Hello, we don't seem to be playing very well?

To listen to ESPN one would think USA were the uber-fussballers, just waiting to pounce. Rather (as a generalization and with some noteworthy exceptions), our side appeared technically brittle, tactically inflexible, and creatively challenged.

Obviously, Ryan's keeper switch was not a winning decision. But it wasn't a losing decision either. We got knocked out for a number of troubling reasons. All those need to be addressed, and now we have a potential breakdown in team chemistry (which perhaps was not as happy as they would like us to believe?) to add to the mix.

From top to bottom, this should be a time for significant introspection for the WNT. I don't know if Ryan can oversee the paradigm shift that I feel is badly needed. I suspect he can't.

I do know this, when you get taken to school, you should learn the lesson: Violence can combine with art. In the semis, Brazil was the bullfighter, and we were the bull. We need to retain our capacity for physical play and direct attack, augment this with a renewed commitment to midfield possession when we choose, and introduce a passion for creative flair in the attack which our side now sorely lacks. Our players can rise to that challenge. It is up to USA soccer to give them an institutional environment where they can make it happen. If Ryan can provide leadership, it needs to start today! Otherwise, US soccer needs to get jumping on new leadership, as these decisions impact both the Olympics and the launch of the WSII.

 

complete disgrace to the title of coach

 

Well said. Some may find irony in your post and your handle though... Of course, I'm not one of them.

 

Well said.

This team is still talented but the cohesion was missing throughout the tournament and it spelled doom for a team that otherwise had very little going for it during th Cup.

A combination of bad luck and bad play combined with poor coordination, tactics, coaching decisions and a general lack of confidence to leave us reeling and punch-drunk.

It's not just the coaching in the tournament but the upper echelons of US women's play. Perhaps one of the reasons the younger players failed to come up big in this tournament (in addition to the fact that key young players got limited playing time) is that they were brought up on the team in the waning years of the Legends. The Chalupnys, O'Reillys, Tarpleys and Lloyds of the game grew up in a time when we truly began to instill this dogma of speed, athleticism, force of will, and longball play into our youth leagues.

Obviously, from the ground up, we have our work cut out for us. It has to happen at the grassroots level; it's imperative that we figure out a way to find coaches that aren't afraid to drill on technique and fundamentals and those who aren't afraid to gamble on players that are unconventional.

I coach a team of 12 year olds and though they're on the cusp of the age when their size and adult builds will begin to alter their playing, I try to teach them that creativity, possession, and innovation are as important as size and speed and bullish perseverance.

I started twice a week scrimmages where they are absolutely forbidden to use a long ball for the thirty minutes or the player that kicks it is ejected. The long ball has a time and a place and I want them to understand that every touch has to mean something. It also teaches them the double-edge sword consequence of an ejection. They've got to learn to play a man down and get familiar enough with each other to compensate. Yet, it's in their best interest to get the man back and keep the chemistry building.

The WNT could have benefitted from a little of that kind of training.

I think when the US watches the gametapes, they'll see that their touches demonstrated frustration, fear, exhaustion and desperation.

As far as rebuilding for the Olympics, I think people are spelling the death knell too soon. They've got to regain their composure and understand that to play against teams like Brazil, who we honestly can't match for technical ability or style, we are going to have to adapt on the attack. We've got to find a way to do rapid-fire possession that minimizes roaming and getting stripped.

I'd be more encouraged if someone besides Ryan was there to shepherd them to it.

 

Was it the tactical disconnect between the coach & the team? NO!
Was it the goalie change? NO!
Was it all because US was down to 10 players early in the game? NO!

This was simply the worse USA team I have seen, which means the worst USA team in the last 15 years or so.

They lack fundamentals.
They lack ball control.
They lack speed and agility.
Most of them are not as good as Brazilian and German players as far as physical conditioning goes.

They are not able to run numbers into the other teams box during counterattacks.
They are not able to run back to defense after they lose the ball near the other team's goal.
They are not able to string a series of passes to keep possession in the midfield.

There are certainly a few talented players in this team, but saying that the whole team is talented will be quite an overstatement.

I have seen many better players currently playing in the NCAA compared to some players who simply should not be on this team.

The problem will not be fixed until either there is a competitive league for women again, or the new coach is more willing to use NCAA players.

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

 

Agree with some of what you stated.

Could it be that it was just a bad game? The players came a little sure of themselves having beaten Brazil earlier this year?

I have not watched the string of 51 games that the team had either won (most) or tied under this coach, so it would be hard to pin everything on this game.

I did see the same team with Scurry beat the same Brazilian team earlier this year. I do have to say that they played ugly soccer - everything that you had aptly described. Inability to maintain possession, team attack and defense.