The Big "Paucity of English Youth Talent" Debate!

BarryfromEastenders · Oct 18, 2013

This was deemed to be the team of the future by the Daily Mail after we failed to make Euro 2008 -

You wouldn't have guessed that the only player there to end up with no club would be Michael Johnson.

dbs235 · Oct 18, 2013

It's always funny to look at these, and it makes it worrying that he have such high hopes for so many players like Carroll, Morrison, Chalobah ect, does anyone think we will be laughing at those names in a few years?

The Guardian · Oct 18, 2013

dbs235 said: ↑

It's always funny to look at these, and it makes it worrying that he have such high hopes for so many players like Carroll, Morrison, Chalobah ect, does anyone think we will be laughing at those names in a few years?
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Not Morrison we won't. But yes people do go on about too many players of questionable potential. And in articles like that the "journalists" just pick up names off the internet and throw em in.

By the way a number of Evertonians got stroppy with me when I told them Jose "Better Than Rooney At The Same Age" Baxter wasn't much cop at all - and he was still a schoolboy then.

blackman · Oct 19, 2013

BarryfromEastenders said: ↑

This was deemed to be the team of the future by the Daily Mail after we failed to make Euro 2008 -

You wouldn't have guessed that the only player there to end up with no club would be Michael Johnson.
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Waouw , this make you realize how much it's hard to have success in football . Only Walcott and to a certain extent Richards and Sinclair matched the expectations , Amos still playing with the reserve , the rest are not even premier league material .

dbs235 said: ↑

It's always funny to look at these, and it makes it worrying that he have such high hopes for so many players like Carroll, Morrison, Chalobah ect, does anyone think we will be laughing at those names in a few years?
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Well Carroll , Chalobah , Shaw etc.....already showed their talent (or potential) in the premier league and in the various national teams when most of those eleven were still playing with the reserves or U18 of their clubs in 2008 .

The Guardian · Oct 20, 2013

Just after we won the u17 Euros in 2010 Four Four Two has an article on the five to watch, two of them being Robert Hall and Conor Coady.

The Guardian · Oct 25, 2013

Just a reminder - Tomorrow's Football Focus is from St George's Park.

dakid · Oct 26, 2013

blackman said: ↑

Waouw , this make you realize how much it's hard to have success in football . Only Walcott and to a certain extent Richards and Sinclair matched the expectations , Amos still playing with the reserve , the rest are not even premier league material .

Well Carroll , Chalobah , Shaw etc.....already showed their talent (or potential) in the premier league and in the various national teams when most of those eleven were still playing with the reserves or U18 of their clubs in 2008 .
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Chalobah is yet to play in the Premier League.

The Guardian · Oct 29, 2013

Many of the pundits who pontificate on England youth players and teams don't know basic stuff. The Liverpool TV academy expert Neil Mellor, on Saturday, trying to explain the absence of Ojo, Brewitt and Adam Phillips claimed they were away playing in the u17 Word Cup. Obviously as we didn't even qualify for the last Euros we couldn't qualify for the WC. And if we had, none of those players would have been there anyway as it would have consisted of (current) u18 players like perhaps Ryan Kent (who was playing on Saturday for Liverpool).

But otherwise he was spot on.

The Guardian · Oct 31, 2013

There's a case in point in today's Mail (including in the paper copy) claiming England u17s have now qualified for next year's Euros. And there is a suggestion that this makes winning the world cup in 2022 now more likely. As usual when I pointed out a fact or two they wouldn't put it up. But they do approve comments from those that haven't a clue.

The Guardian · Nov 12, 2013

It was a few years back now when the much publicised Watford combined school and academy was set up. I though then that set up was the way forward and would eventually produce results - the old "system" was obviously amateurish and inefficient. Not heard much about this sort of thing since, until the last couple of weeks with similar set ups at Man City and West Ham.

Is it more widespread now?

The Guardian · Dec 18, 2013

Listening to a couple of Chelsea youth coaches they seem to have more of a competitive approach these days (Mourinho said the same recently) in that they want players from the age of 8 to 16 to play 38 - 42 games a year with at least 4 European tournaments a season.

kent paul · Dec 18, 2013

The Guardian said: ↑

Listening to a couple of Chelsea youth coaches they seem to have more of a competitive approach these days (Mourinho said the same recently) in that they want players from the age of 8 to 16 to play 38 - 42 games a year with at least 4 European tournaments a season.
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If I was Chelsea fan I would be seriously pissed because they have as good a set up as anybody but can't produce a player capable of getting into there first team let alone staying there but the likes of Southampton who probably spend a 1/4 of the amount Chelsea do yet continue to produce player after player, like Walcott, Bale, Ox, JWP, Shaw and I am sure there are a lot more on the way

The Guardian · Dec 18, 2013

kent paul said: ↑

If I was Chelsea fan I would be seriously pissed because they have as good a set up as anybody but can't produce a player capable of getting into there first team let alone staying there but the likes of Southampton who probably spend a 1/4 of the amount Chelsea do yet continue to produce player after player, like Walcott, Bale, Ox, JWP, Shaw and I am sure there are a lot more on the way
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Southampton youth teams always play like they mean it - very competitive (for what it's worth).

The Guardian · Dec 18, 2013

It was a real eye-opener when Moyles said he had suggested to Welbeck that he should stay back after training to improve his finishing - like Rooney does - even it is just for 10 or 15 minutes.

First it is odd that no one seems to have told him before and secondly he couldn't think of doing it HIMSELF. Even with Wayne's example. Especially with Welbeck's terrible scoring record.

We all know of the obsessive dedication of some stars like Lampard, Beckham and Ronaldo, but I have wondered about others - particularly young players. Many players can balance a ball on the back of their necks but one wonders how much time is spent on crucial match winning skills like crossing and shooting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...rs-Danny-Welbeck-train-like-Wayne-Rooney.html

The Guardian · Dec 18, 2013

That should have course have read "Moyes".

blackman · Dec 27, 2013

kent paul said: ↑

If I was Chelsea fan I would be seriously pissed because they have as good a set up as anybody but can't produce a player capable of getting into there first team let alone staying there but the likes of Southampton who probably spend a 1/4 of the amount Chelsea do yet continue to produce player after player, like Walcott, Bale, Ox, JWP, Shaw and I am sure there are a lot more on the way
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Well , Southamptonis a club with a true youth policy but Chelsea produce quality players too , McEachran , Chalobah , Loftus-Cheek are top quality . The problem is due to their objectives and the pressure they put on their manager , it's impossible to give a chance to players from the academy.....If I was a young player , I will never sign for Chelsea because of this , that's why in my opinion Bamford and Brown made a big mistake ...if they don't even believe in Lukaku they'll never believe in Bamford.....By the way why Isaiah Brown signed for them when WBA really counted on him ??
Is not about how much you spend is about how much CAN you spend....Chelsea can spend millions on players , They've got the money , Southampton don't.... Anyway , is funny how many people are criticizing all these foreign managers in the EPL and then you have someone like Pochettino who don't even speak english but believes in the likes of Ward-Prowse , Shaw , Chambers , Reed , Lallana etc.....The reason is according to the Argentinian they've got the quality to play in the EPL , a quality which not a large number of English/British players got yet (but they are coming) and this is why the percentage (of homegrow players in the EPL ) is low .

lanman · Dec 27, 2013

blackman said: ↑

...and then you have someone like Pochettino who don't even speak english...
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He does speak reasonable English, and often talks to the print journalists direct. He's just not comfortable doing it for the cameras.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ll-continue-in-press-conferences-9002487.html

kent paul · Dec 28, 2013

blackman said: ↑

Well , Southamptonis a club with a true youth policy but Chelsea produce quality players too , McEachran , Chalobah , Loftus-Cheek are top quality . The problem is due to their objectives and the pressure they put on their manager , it's impossible to give a chance to players from the academy.....If I was a young player , I will never sign for Chelsea because of this , that's why in my opinion Bamford and Brown made a big mistake ...if they don't even believe in Lukaku they'll never believe in Bamford.....By the way why Isaiah Brown signed for them when WBA really counted on him ??
Is not about how much you spend is about how much CAN you spend....Chelsea can spend millions on players , They've got the money , Southampton don't.... Anyway , is funny how many people are criticizing all these foreign managers in the EPL and then you have someone like Pochettino who don't even speak english but believes in the likes of Ward-Prowse , Shaw , Chambers , Reed , Lallana etc.....The reason is according to the Argentinian they've got the quality to play in the EPL , a quality which not a large number of English/British players got yet (but they are coming) and this is why the percentage (of homegrow players in the EPL ) is low .
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I get what you are saying about the pressure they put on the manager but if Fergie thought a kid was good enough he would give them a go and United are a bigger club than Chelsea ever will be so if they can give youth a chance so can Chelsea

BlueRebelZ · Feb 6, 2014

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...players-loan-David-Moyes-backing-B-teams.html

Features United being against u21 league

thebigman · Feb 6, 2014

He should worry more about his tactics than b teams

MUFC1 · Feb 7, 2014

Warren Joyce has recently given an interview about how useless the U21 league is for developing players into first teamers. Says the gap between U21 and first team football is too big and that there should be a mens league for the U21s. I'd agree obviously, but the implementation is harder.

Jenks · Feb 7, 2014

I don't understand why no Premier League team has just bitten the bullet and started a B Team from scratch. Yeah it'll take a good few years to make it's way up the pyramid, but it'll be worth it in the end.

fernb8 · Feb 7, 2014

Jenks said: ↑

I don't understand why no Premier League team has just bitten the bullet and started a B Team from scratch. Yeah it'll take a good few years to make it's way up the pyramid, but it'll be worth it in the end.
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have to start with League approval which I think would be blocked on the B Team premise

lanman · Feb 7, 2014

I'm not certain, but I don't think the same person can own two clubs in the league. I don't think there's anything to stop a Premier League team forming a new club at the bottom of the pyramid, but I think the problems would start once they reached the Football League.

Jenks · Feb 7, 2014

Nick Levett said in an interview:

"It will be interested to see the first Premier League club that sets up a B team, and says ‘well if we need to start at local county football, we’ll do it, because in 10 years time we’ll have a team in the Championship’. It’d be interesting because no one could stop them doing it! It’d be fascinating to see if someone will do it, because we’ll have 40 kids. 40 pros. All playing. 20 for the first team, 20 for the second!"

http://www.englandfootballblog.com/2012/01/09/gareth-southgate-interview-part-three/

Not sure if he's right of course...