I agree in the sense that this board has become so Anti this and Anti that, that there is no discussion without lines being drawn. People are so set in their ways, they rationalize any old crap to support their "radical" position. There can be good people who disagree of good will! They just see it differently! It doesn't have to be black or white. I am gray. I can make an argument it is the front office and not Olsen or I can reverse that equally effectively. I can make it that the midfield sucks or the forwards are worse or vice versa. I am gray. I have tires strapped around me, F**K with me if you dare.
This might be one of the most intellectually misleading arguments on the internet, or at best least informed. Let's take a look at these players one by one. Dykstra: 22 games in 2013, has apparently risen from #3 to #2 on the United depth chart Seaton: 15 games and 5 goals in 2013, earned DC minutes late in the season and a Jamaica call up Shanosky: 14 games in 2013, earned his first DC minutes Willis: has played 4 or 5 preseason games in 2014 Robinson: has not yet ever played for Richmond Birnbaum: has played one preseason game Kemp: 5 games for Richmond in 2013 before being called to DC Townsend: 4 games, 2 goals before being recalled to DC Caskey: one preseason game Francois: 4 or 5 preseason games White: 6 games in 2012 Tan: 1 game in 2012 Have any of these guys become stars? No. But it's hard to argue that the three that actually spent any significant time in Richmond weren't/aren't in a better position to contribute than when the loan began. If you want to complain that a guy who was loaned for one preseason game 4 days ago hasn't shown his worth and therefore the partnership is a bust, well, good luck.
I might be that guy at the office who rambles on about something no one cares about and is barely tolerated until my coworkers can sneak off and go talk about Game of Thrones with upper management. That hits home. Why should BS be any different?
I totally respect what you're saying, but I don't think it's a 'bust,' but rather 'in a nascent stage of development' that doesn't benefit us in 2014 or even 2015. There may be future gains (and we all hope there are), but how does Seaton potentially starting for us in 2015 help us in the present? Or how does Birnbaum being unfit to backup or start for the club help us, when we could have used the Superdraft pick to select an MLS ready player (which he presumably was)? Only half of my argument is that these players won't be coached up at Richmond anymore than they would at DC. The other half is that they are for the most part fringe players (Willis, Seaton and Birnbaum) or are outside of the depth chart and most have little hope of breaking into the starting lineup or backup role for their positions anytime soon. Of that entire list, it's possible theoretically and practically that we never see Dykstra, Shanosky, Robinson, Kemp, Townsend, Caskey or Francois start in the Black and Red again and that was certainly the case with White and Tan. I mentioned that in 5 years or more, half of the players we send to Richmond might be fringe players with a chance of starting or backing up, but right now it's just 2-3 guys (Seaton, Willis and Birnbaum) and the rest are simply off the radar. Seaton is in his incubation period and it's fine for him to be there. Willis is hit or miss and honestly the US is ripe with young keepers or internationals on the cheap. He's not a striker or midfielder or CB, so he is replaceable to a high degree. Birnbaum is a mystery, because he should be backing up our CBs every week, rather than Nana Attakora One point I did mention is that there should be optimism that some day USL Pro provides a real opportunity for MLS level players to grow- currently it does not. The major issue though is what do you do with guys like Martin or Jeffrey, who in the event of one injury, or one sick player, may very well be asked to play for the first team of DC United? Our bench should be the 'closest possible guys to playing' which is Birnbaum, Jeffrey, Martin, Doyle, (Keeper X), Francois or Kemp (tossup) and when Pontius returns, the guy that he benches. We should be sending down guys that are clinically bad, which means Kyle Porter, Francois or Kemp, Attakora and a Keeper. A final issue is that several teams in the league have very deep benches. Those guys rarely play, but aren't they gaining 'something' by being in a state of readiness? Hell, the bench of Seattle and Kansas City is better than our starting lineup at this point:
The way I see it there are 4 things that determine what a thread is about, in ascending order of influence: 1. The title 2. The OP 3. The mod 4. The posters There are times when the posters and the discussion that ensues can totally change the focus of a thread, and sometimes that's fine. However, a problem that we tend to have this forum, in my opinion and that I have seen expressed by others, is that threads start out intended as news/info/update type threads often get unruly and evolve into lengthy discussions tangentially related to that news/info/update which then makes it very difficult for people who are more interested in the news/info/update than the discussion. People are busy, and either they don't care what the rest of us have to say, or just don't have the time to go sift through 4 pages of conversation, no matter how great it is or even relevant. I think if we are mindful, we can have threads that do both, in moderation so to speak, and when needed we can break off our own threads for expansive conversation. Personally, I think that should be up to the posters, not the moderators. If you find yourself getting into a lengthy dialogue on a conversation marked (R), start another thread for it and be respectful of the original purpose. And don't be offended when a moderator decides to shut down a thread you create or moderate the one you're using. It's art, not science. And you know all good artists are psychotic. This is the reasoning behind the experiment with two stadium threads. Personally, I kinda think that is working the way I hoped it would. If people would rather have everything all mixed up the way it used to be, so be it. But I think we stand to keep more people happy the second way. Let's attempt to keep this thread related strictly to team and individual performances in Richmond and limited discussion on those players, rather than extensive discussion about the arrangement or any particular player in general, etc, or anything veering largely away from that original intent.
The premise that players would be better off in their development getting 0 minutes a game vs. 90 minutes a game is very flawed. Hell, with how DC performs, it's probably better for Seaton & Co. not to be immersed in it. In all seriousness, this isn't some season-long deal that United can be hamstrung by. If Johnson is gone for 2 months and Seaton comes in after playing 90 minutes a game from March through May, isn't that a plus for DC? In fact with how much United is struggling to score goals, I'm rather impressed with DCU's patience to let Seaton develop in the environment that's best for him. For guys like Birnbaum training with United during the week and driving down 95 to play in a game is a great deal. He gets the experience in training from veterans like Parke and Boswell and then gets to go put it on the field. Could it hurt for 1 game if one of the CBs went down and he wasn't an available sub? Sure. But what if that injury sidelines the starter for 3 months? Isn't it better to have someone who's had game minutes ready to step in? Let's not overlook the proximity here when comparing to other teams. Of course this setup isn't as beneficial as LAII, but who's is? Kansas City has to send people to Orlando, while United's players are a short (albeit often painful) interstate trip away. That's a great asset.
I think that's an intrinsic problem with forums instead of a source that can be user filtered like reddit for example People want to discuss the topics presented on here and unfortunately that's going to happen in the threads where the info is posted. Some mods around here think it's an issue of more moderation or better user practices but I think it's an issue with forums themselves. Until this site evolves into something more functionally similar to social media, you're going to have this problem. I mean people have been complaining about this since the 90s... We have ended up with the specialized threads we see today.. I personally think the solution is to get rid of these big combo news dump threads and let people post individual threads for individual topics, news, and discussions.
I understand, it's the nature of the beast. I think "news dump" threads are effective for specific topics, ie, stadium, youth team, etc. It's like having a sub-forum, but using a thread to do it. A lot depends on user behavior. We'll see.
I remember Bryan Namoff making that Richmond- DC trip early in his career. I can't remember if he was loaned to Richmond because he wasn't an obvious starter and needed playing time or because Richmond had a glaring need, but he must have benefited, since he started 195 games for DCU and would have had more if not concussed.
Yep, DeRo was a Kicker and the rumor was Yallop picked him up for SJ because of what he saw while a DC assistant the year before, although most people had DeRo on the radar anyway given his success in Richmond where I believe he was MVP or leading scorer or something. We have a long history with Richmond too. Richie Williams, Brian Kamler, Clyde Simms, etc.
Martin and Caskey are listed on the Kickers roster right now. Granted, some of the known contracted players aren't, but this does seem to suggest that those two in particular will be seeing time in Richmond.
Funny ... Caskey was a regular part of Seattle's 18 man game day roster last year. Apparently DC is a tougher roster for him to crack.
Kickers and Battery played to a 2-2 draw Saturday night in Charleston. Willis, Seaton, and Martin all started. Martin assisted on both goals. Willis and Martin went the full 90, Seaton subbed out in the 68th minute. Former DCUer John Wilson is still toiling away for Charleston.
I watched it. Seaton was dynamic. Martin was lazy. Not defensively, he did enough there, but he would pass the ball, stand and watch. He is skilled though, a great pass on the first goal and a nice cross for the second. Willis is a shambles right now. Any 'tweener cross and he's mystified. He was burned again by just that kind of ball for the Battery's second. It was a good match, and I thought the level of play was good. Much better than a college game.
Seaton looked good tonight for the kickers. All the guys looked good in the first half. I dont think willis played.
true.. that being said, the other guys looked better than porter. And Pittsburg looked awful, minus Ownby who was holding his own with many lesser teammates holding him back.
Looks like Richmond won, 3-1. Seaton scored the first. Porter scored the other two, with Francois getting the assist on the second. Joseph Ngwenya assisted the Pittsburgh goal.