The best players of the 1982 World Cup

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I checked him out (Sljivo) in the newly available OPTA tool and he had a high number of passes: 207 in 270 minutes (0.76 passes per minute; comparison: Falcao of Brazil had 0.68 passes per minute). Vladimir Petrovic was number 2 in Yugoslavia team with 157 passes (and also lower pass accuracy). Gudelj number 3 with 144 passes but with a higher accuracy (but he was their libero).

    Explains a bit why he is the highest ranked Yugoslavian non-defensive player in the Castrol ranking.

    It seems that it was a player who made a lot of passes.

    Just wanted to let you know this because for me it was also an obscure player (I knew his name and fame though because he played in Belgian league for a while).

    When you posted this reply the OPTA tool was not available yet.


    comme

    Will you post your final list and changes? Also your brief thoughts/considerations about those changes maybe?
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Do we know what his stamina stats were like? Seems that was a plus for him according to this:
    http://pcsd.forumfree.it/?t=59178023
    He was a Bosnian player then...
    The link mentions that he was good on the ball too - there are no stats to measure accuracy of first touch etc though I guess and I was a bit confused about where the dribbling stats are - there was no 'successful dribbles' so I guess they are in the 'duels' stats but not specified/identified individually. Successful dribbles is not a stat I completely understand anyway - where does a dribble start and end - can a player go past 3 players and get tackled by the 4th and it's 3 succesful dribbles or zero?
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    OPTA does not track stamina of course although a stat like 'recoveries' is of course related to that (also related to usage of space).

    A dribble past three opponents counts as 3 successful dribbles I think.

    http://www.optasportspro.com/es/acerca-de/blog-optapro/posts/2012/optapro's-event-definitions.aspx

    Anyhow, I now see the database posted by schwuppe and concerning the 1982WC I don't see anyone else with a pass per minute of 0.75.

    Looks like this player made a huge amount of passes, relatively speaking.
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Matter of fact, OPTA still lacks of pretty much some good criteria ..
    - Shooting: they mention shots acuracy (=shots on goal/# shots) and #shots off target, but they missed the GOAL succesful rate (= goals/#of shots on goal) - or unless Comme and Schwuppe missed out?

    - Passing: there are a lot of types like meaningful passes (with vision) against some laying off passes, or just passing around (like many Barca players now) since their team mates are there@@@ no real threat nor visionary ...

    - Dribbles" they listed out a "duel" but duel for what? they missed a Meaningful or smart move dribble ; like a player may dribble passed an opponent but ended up in the corner kick zone (Denilson, or Walcott? ) is more stupid than he just "turned it around" and passing to another team mate in better zone? Or they called a "unsuccessful duel" - not clear! As a player might lost the ball for he tried to passed opponent into a dangerous zone (chancing with risk) = more acceptable than a player just holding the ball and running around ... his own zone ...
     
  5. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    This was my final list.

    Conti dropped to 2*, Littbarski up to 3*. Tigana, Tardelli and Bossis to 2*. Belloumi dropped out.

    Mainly based on the thoughts of others in here. Belloumi's stats were very poor as well, so that influenced that decision.

    Goalkeepers
    Dino Zoff (Italy) 7 games, 0 goals ***
    Rinat Dasaev (USSR)5 games, 0 goals ***
    Thomas N’Kono (Cameroon) 3 games, 0 goals **
    Peter Shilton (England) 5 games, 0 goals *

    Fullbacks
    Claudio Gentile (Italy) 6 games, 0 goals ***
    Junior (Brazil) 5 games, 1 goal **
    Antonio Cabrini (Italy) 7 games, 1 goal **
    Eric Gerets (Belgium) 3 games, 0 goals **
    Leandro (Brazil) 5 games, 0 goals *

    Mick Mills (England) 5 games, 0 goals *
    Manfred Kaltz (West Germany) 7 games, 0 goals

    Central defenders
    Gaetano Scirea (Italy) 7 games, 0 goals ***
    Fulvio Collovati (Italy) 7 games, 0 goals **
    Karlheinz Forster (West Germany) 6 games, 0 goals **
    Maxime Bossis (France) 6 games, 1 goal **
    Marius Tresor (France) 7 games, 1 goal *
    Uli Stielike (West Germany) 7 games, 0 goals *
    Daniel Passarella (Argentina) 5 games. 2 goals *

    Luizinho (Brazil) 5 games, 0 goals
    Central midfielders
    Paulo Roberto Falcao (Brazil) 5 games, 3 goals ***

    Marco Tardelli (Italy) 7 games, 2 goals **
    Jean Tigana (France) 5 games, 0 goals **
    Toninho Cerezo (Brazil) 4 games. 0 goals *
    Osvaldo Ardiles (Argentina) 5 games, 1 goal *

    Paul Breitner (West Germany) 7 games, 1 goal *

    Attacking midfielders
    Alain Giresse (France) *** 6 games, 3 goals
    Socrates (Brazil) 5 games, 2 goals **
    Giancarlo Antognoni (Italy) 6 games. 0 goals *
    Michel Platini (France) 6 games, 3 goals *



    Wingers
    Pierre Littbarski (West Germany) 7 games, 2 goals ***
    Bruno Conti (Italy) 7 games, 1 goal **
    Eder (Brazil) 5 games, 2 goals *

    Gregorz Lato (Poland) 7 games, 1 goal *

    Forwards
    Zico (Brazil) 5 games, 4 goals ***
    Zbigniew Boniek(Poland) 6 games, 4 goals ***
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (West Germany) 7 games, 5 goals **

    Strikers
    Paolo Rossi (Italy) 7 games, 6 goals ***

    Gerry Armstrong (Northern Ireland) 5 games, 3 goals *
     
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  6. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Comme, you have miss stats for Kaltz and Luizinho, i guess it was 1* ??
     
  7. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    It should have been yes.
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You did not include Kaltz in your earlier list too? I guess he had good stats? He has a high Castrol ranking anyway but not mentioned in all star teams.
     
  9. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Cagalhao
    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    1. Lionel Messi
    2. Paolo Rossi
    3. Zico
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think this post is less funny and with less disguise as some of your others ;).
    Got to admit I did find the ones about Zidane failing against Betis etc, and moreso the one crediting Messi for Spain's success right at the end of a seemingly Messi-praising essay a bit amusing :thumbsup::laugh::cry:.
     
  11. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Very good list Comme ...
    However I think you are a bit harsh on Junior - he could well be very close to 3* , or Eder should be 2* .... unless you think I am biased toward Brazilians ...
    .. and the inclusion of Armstrong is a bit surprised .. but reasonable
     
  12. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    You are welcome!

    According to El Grafico this was their team of the tournament: [​IMG]
     
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  13. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    This was the best team of the first round according to El Grafico: [​IMG]
     
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  14. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    In addition, El Grafico also mentioned what was the opinion of some of the most renowned figures in the sport:

    Eusebio: "Out of a 10, I'd give a 5 in terms of quality."

    Vialcheslav Kolodsov (Vice President of FIFA): "I was disappointed with the lack of stars, perhaps absorbed due to the collective team-performances. I'd give it 6 points out of 10."

    Georg Schmidt (Austria's manager): "5 points. Disappointed that not even one great star appeared."

    Jackie Charlton: "6 points out of 10."

    Helenio Herrera: "6 points."


    That was being said halfway through the tournament.
     
  15. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    By the end of the World Cup, some famous people were asked who the best player was:

    Beckenbauer: "Zico, Rummenigge, Maradona, Falcao and Stielike, each one in their own moment."

    Puskas: "No one. The teams collectively were greater than the individuals."

    Just Fontaine: "Giresse"

    Di Stefano: "I can't choose one. But the best must come out of this list: Tigana, Junior, Littbarski, Amoros and Passarella."

    Facchetti: "Passarella"

    Pedro Escartin (Ex Spanish referee): "Socrates"

    Gino Bacchi (Tutto Sport): "Falcao"

    Peter Brandenberg (Kicker magazine): "Rossi"

    Yoshiyuki Arai (The Mainichi Newspaper in Japan): "Rummenigge"

    Muley Hassan (Crown Prince of Morocco): "Maradona"
     
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  16. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    In Revista Placar shortly after the World Cup, there is the same discussion about the absence of a great player in the world... Unfortunately I don't achieving find the election of ''best team'';
     
  17. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    It's always a shock when we see people different view on Football.
    10 great names had 10 different views of who is the best there = so FUNNY
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It seems that some changed their opinion too. Like mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm sure that Beckenbauer highlighted Giresse after the end of second group stage. Also Di Stefano changed his list a bit.
     
  19. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    they are "human" after all ...
    That's why I would not solely trust in any particular point of view , nor any "rating system" there is (out there) - it's either carrrying some agenda behind or being "biased" to one's view
     
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Re: What Puck posted about Cruyff's comments I noticed this interview:
     
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  21. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think Cruyff was in error. Italy steamrolled Germany in that match, it could easily have been 5-1 if Cabrini nails his pk and Italy does not begin the celebrations early with Tardelli's ecstasy.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #97 PuckVanHeel, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
    According to these highlights by the respected 'gr8footy' the first couple of opportunities arrived for the West Germans (the word 'chances' is maybe a too strong word), before the penalty kick was given.

    Just watch the first 70 seconds. Those main events came before the first goal of the game (first goal at 4:30).
     
  23. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    My 1982 world cup XI:

    Dasaev
    Leandro
    Collovati
    Scriea
    Junior
    Cerezo
    Falcao
    Socrates
    Zico
    Eder
    Rossi
     
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  24. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    you sure want an Eder (2goals+1ass) over Rummenigge (5goals) and Littbarski (2goals+5ass)? ;)

    (i know you like him)

    I would swap Cerezo to eitehr Giresse or Tigana
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Somebody loves Brazil and that team even more than you James!
    I'm inclined to agree with your choices (Littbarski moreso than Rummenigge although Karl-Heinz's goals do make a case too; certainly I'd favour a French mid over Cerezo for an all-star team I think).
    But those choices are reasonable by giles I think as they all had a good/very good WC. He basically chose the great parts of the Brazil side and then added other players to compensate for the Brazil 'weaknesses' I think!
     

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