I double checked some stats with this source and they seem overlapping indeed. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00019/PastMasters_19439a.pdf No strange question marks, unclear stats or inconsistencies as far as I can see.
Regarding the european championships, many info is available by their twitter account. For example: Deco, Bergkamp and Zidane are the three who created most chances in open play at european championship finals.
I also discover that Castrol ranking gives a higher value to players who play and complete more passes. Logical perhaps but playing in a dominant team with good team mates obviously helps to complete more passes and receive a higher rating. Proof that individual stats have limits. Also good example is the fouls, why they can be misleading: Gentile received in 1982 after a while a yellow card against both Argentina and Brazil but on both occasions the ref started to ignore his fouls even more. So, not every foul is registered. Same with 1974 final. Berti Vogts committed four registered fouls in total in the 1974 final. He made three in the first three minutes, he received his yellow card on that occasion. In the other 87 minutes he had only one more registered foul by the ref. Stats can be a bit misleading.
Stats = good with BIG samples ... one game, one tournament or even one full season did not tell much of story! It just indicates how good/bad that player was in such regarding scenario
We finished the spreadsheet with all stats from the Top 30 for each year already. I will make a thread asap.
OK, would be interesting to see it. With such a small sample it is not significant and dependent on the draw though (I already mentioned the example of Maradona getting 3 of his 5 WC1986 assists versus Korea; Zico 2 goals and 2 assists vs New Zealand and Beckenbauer 2 of his 4 goals against low ranked Switzerland - which are all opponents of a rank that not every 'star' faced in the 16 and 24 teams era). Plus the factor I mentioned before in comparison with basketball - the lack of a shot clock. That makes stats concerning shooting accuracy very reliable in basketball but less so in football (because a football player can choose to take early shots; wait until he get the ball in the penalty area; opt to prefer possession instead of taking shots etcetera; you can think of many different player and team strategies and tactics). But nevertheless interesting. I also saw already in the widget and castrol ranking that some who received a high journalist rating and inclusions in all star teams did not receive a great castrol ranking or had great stats in the widget: Laudrup in 1986, Stojkovic in 1990 for example. To a lesser extent also Rivaldo or Stoichkov even. To name a few. Still find it strange that FIFA has for 2006 and 2010 WC vastly different individual stats as OPTA
Here the main assisters of euro80 Ceulemans 2 Haan 2 H. Müller 2 Panenka 2 Schuster 2 Causio 1 Graziani 1 Juanito 1 Kozak 1 Masny 1 Mavros 1 Naninga 1 (PK) Rummenigge 1 Van der Elst 1 (PK) Wijnstekers 1 (PK) Wilkins 1 Zamora 1 (PK)
Searching through the Argentine magazine of El Grafico, I came across the ideal team of the tournament. This Euro was televised in Argentina by ATC and brought some negative reviews. Menotti regarded it as a "step back in the history of football". The director of France Football, Jacques Ferran, also criticized the level of play, by concluding that the players acted more as boxers and that they showed a complete lack of respect towards the officials. Anyway, I thought I'd share how the tournament was viewed in Argentina and who was chosen as the standout players in the event. West Germany was deemed as a legitimate champion, but the reviews made it clear that the European sides had concerns heading into the next WC of Spain.
First it was always "relative" case that one can say "low ranked team" . For example, France struggled vs S Korea in Group WC2006, Italy passed Australia in Gp16 by a DIVING PK. and eventually BOTH advanced to FINAL 06? so, nothing wrong with Zico enjoyed goals+assists vs New Zealand or Maradona vs Korea! I remember you was "impressed" with Eusebio 9goals' /6games at WC66? but IN FACT: - 4goals vs 1game N. Korea (even worse than S Korea) - 2 PK goals = 6 given goals out of 9? Hence Muller 10gaols WC70, Jaizinho 7goals WC70, and Ronaldo 8goals WC02 > Eusebio 66 surely ... Secondly, it's NOT about the number of goals and assist that mattered, but HOW MANY games they contributed to their team in winning. For example, even we ignore the weight of each game: - 66 Eusebio scored and assist in 5/6games total= 82% contribution - that counts - 82 Zico scored and assist in 4/5games total = 80% contribution - that counts - 86 Maradona scored and assist in 5/7games = 67% contribution - that counts Lastly, FIFA had different rule set for assists and they do not count the weight in different games like Opta. Neither are perfect anyway ... and I guess there is NONE exist .. since things like " assist" or "chance creation" or even "pass completion %" are all VAGUE and QUESTIONABLE.
In WC86, Maradona was far more involved than just 67%. He either scored or assisted in every goal by Argentina except one (I believe against Uruguay but I will have to check again). For example against Germany in the final: First goal, Maradona earns the fk by dribbling past Briegel. Second goal, opens up the German midfield, passes to Burruchaga who releases Valdano. Third goal, after Germany ties with eight minutes left, Maradona makes that wonderful mid-air pass surrounded by three German players to Burruchaga for the winner.
Sorry, you're right ... (I miscalculate ) At WC86 Maradona involved to 6/7 games = 88% of DIRECT contribution to the team - include 3 wining goals
I've been doing some more investigation into this tournament. Someone who definitely deserved at least one star was Antognoni who was pure class on the ball throughout.
The basic stats for this tournament: Topscorers: Allofs 3; Kist, Hrubesch and Nehoda 2 Assists: Panenka, Hansi Muller and Schuster 2 (Haan 1, Krol 1) Shots on goal per game: Kist 2.3; Hrubesch 2.0; Dani 2.0 Successful dribbles per game: Vizek 6.0; Schuster 6.0; Rep 5.0 Chances created per game: Causio 3.3; Panenka 3.3; Wilkins 2.7 (Krol 2.3) Save percentage: Zoff 94.7; Schumacher 81.3; Arconada 81.0 Pass accuracy: Thompson 93.9; Oriali 92.3; Asensi 92.2 (Krol 87.2) Percentage individual duels won: Van de Korput 77.8; Panenka 75.9; Thompson 69.2 Winning possession per game: Krol 12; Livathinos 12; Kyrastas 10 Fouls per game: Millecamps 4.8; W. van de Kerkhof 4.7; Rep 3.5
I discovered that Guerin Sportivo did rate players in this competition. It is interesting because in the 1984 Euro or 1982 World Cup, I did not see GS grade players, at least not that I’m aware of (although it’s possible in a supplementary section there was but I don’t have it). It could also be that this 1980 championship was held in Italy with better coverage. The results are interesting nevertheless. They had an A team (the best) and the B team as the reserve, as well as all the ratings. The interesting part is that they showed the grades of all the 4 major Sport Italian newspapers: Gazzetta, Guerin, Corriere and Tuttosport.
Some of these match ratings (again) don't make a great amount of sense. I'll take here the Czechoslovakia vs Netherlands game as an example, a clear example. Czechoslovakia averages here 6.36 while Netherlands averages here 6.16 (6.10 without the subs), ending in 1-1. Although Netherlands started in all the three matches very slow, in the last 60 minutes it was genuinely one way traffic with the Czechoslovakians not mustering a single chance. Guerin their own report says Netherlands hit the post twice, and had a goal disallowed (here at 1:38:00 in the video timer). I'm not saying they played particularly well (they didn't) but such 0.26 gap looks rather strange. If anything it should be other way around for this game. The Czechs also played nail hard in the first half, provoking an embarrassing response. Quite possibly there are sensible explanations for all of these games (expectations, familiarity with tactics by the rater, the high amount of fouling in the tournament making grades more random etc.) and cases, but there are a few that look strange and not how the actual defending/attacking played out.
I notice Tuttosport and Corriere disagree a lot on Scirea in general, but especially his game vs Belgium. Tuttosport give him a 5 (their lowest grade for him, among generally quite low ones) and Corriere give him an 8 (their highest grade for him, among generally high ones)! Tuttosport have Ceulemans on 8.5 vs Spain for example, and Corriere give him 7.5 (slightly less than Scirea vs Belgium) so it's not like Tuttosport were generally giving out much lower grades.
Maybe because he and his defense made quite a few fouls and errors (and very hard ones, like Benetti as mentioned by Menotti above). On the one hand you have his ability with the ball and classy sheen, on the other hand the errors and fouls to correct it. The result of the Belgium game was also not the one the Italians needed, and people can go over the top (to both directions) when it is their own team. Anyway, the grades of a few matches don't make a lot of sense imho (the average grades of both teams in the match). Good to see though that Guerin Sportivo itself rated Vd Kerkhof highly - it might depend a bit on what you expect from a midfielder and with what paradigm you look at the playing style (I've watched the second half of the Czechoslovakia game now and certainly one can recognize the positional play and the organized forechecking). It must be that Pelé had games like this in his mind (and the advanced stages of club tournaments) when he included him in his list. He was a quite clean player too I'd say, certainly for the standards of this tournament.
Yeah, I don't think I saw much if any of the Italy-Belgium game before (and I realised Netherlands vs France from 2008 is on BBC2 now so have that on instead of looking at it today), but maybe Tuttosport's verdict can be partly caused by the disappointment I guess yes. Scirea himself had a reputation to be clean I know (sort of the good cop to Gentile's bad cop) and I find his positioning to be generally good I think, but not in an 'impregnable' kind of way I suppose and maybe his attacking contributions and quality in clearing up defensively too were variable to an extent. Anyway, difficult to see why without watching I suppose, but the other two publications were right in the middle of those extremes. I saw Wilkins had particularly good grades from Guerin themselves too, in comparison to from the others. Vicek's grades are variable against the Dutch I saw too, in comparison to generally good/very good ones vs Greece. Yeah, I did think about whether Pele did see Euro 80 and was influenced positively about Willy van de Kerkhof indeed (and to an extent Rene too, whose average is quite good compared to team-mates but with not so many minutes as Willy and I guess more out of his prime period perhaps as a player even if the same age - both of them were in his 'FIFA 100' anyway of as it turned out 125 living players).
Hello, i'd like to contribuite with the ratings of Corriere della Sera. As for the 1978 World Cup, they only rated the players in Italy's games. Player Avg Matches Gentile 6,75 4 G. Baresi 6,50 3 Oriali 6,33 3 Collovati 6,25 4 Zoff 6,25 4 Scirea 6,13 4 Benetti 6,00 4 Antognoni 6,00 3 Altobelli 6,00 2 Bettega 5,88 4 Cabrini 5,50 2 Tardelli 5,75 4 Graziani 5,75 4 Causio 5,13 4
Here are the ratings of every match played by Italy by Corriere della Sera: Italy 0 - Spain 0 (Group 2) ITA Zoff 6 - Gentile 7, Cabrini 5 - Oriali 6, Collovati 5.5, Scirea 6 Causio 4, Tardelli 5, Graziani 5.5, Antognoni 5.5, Bettega 5.5 Substitutes: Benetti 6 SPA Arconada 6.5 - Tendillo 7,5, Gordillo 7 - Migueli 6.5, Alexanko 7, Zamora 7 Saura 6.5, Asensi 7, Satrústegui 7, Quini 6.5, Dani 6 Substitutes: Juanito 6.5 Italy 1 - England 0 (Group 2) ITA Zoff 6 - Gentile 7, Oriali 7 - Benetti 6.5, Collovati 6.5, Scirea 6 Causio 5.5, Tardelli 6, Graziani 5.5, Antognoni 6.5, Bettega 6.5 Substitutes: G. Baresi not graded ENG Shilton 6.5 - Neal 6.5, Sansom 6.5 - Wilkins 6.5, Thompson 6, Watson 6.5 Keegan 6.5, Coppell 6, Birtles 5, Kennedy 6,5, Woodcock 5.5 Substitutes: Mariner not graded Italy 0 - Belgium 0 (Group 2) ITA Zoff 6 - Gentile 6.5, Oriali 6 - Benetti 5.5, Collovati 6.5, Scirea 6 Causio 5, Tardelli 6, Graziani 6, Antognoni not graded, Bettega 5 Substitutes: G. Baresi 6.5, Altobelli 6 BEL Pfaff 7 - Gerets 6.5, Renquin 7 - Cools 6, Meeuws 6.5, Millecamps 6.5 Vandereycken 6, van der Elst 6, Mommens 5.5, van Moer 6, Ceulemans 6 Substitutes: Verheyen 6, Vandenbergh not graded Czechoslovakia 1 - Italy 1 (9-8 d.c.r.) (Third place final) ITA Zoff 7 - Gentile 6.5, Cabrini 6 - G. Baresi 6.5, Collovati 6.5, Scirea 6.5 Causio 6, Tardelli 6, Graziani 6, Bettega 6.5, Altobelli 6 Substitutes: Benetti not graded CZE Netolička 6.5 - Barmoš 6, Jurkemik 6.5 - Ondruš 6.5, Gögh 6, Vojáček 6 Kozák 6, Panenka 6.5, Nehoda 6, Masný 6, Vízek 6 Substitutes: Gajdůšek 6
Although incomplete in various media, I think this table is quite meaningful to get an idea of the individual performance of the most outstanding and well-known players. From this data we could form the following ideal XI: In goal, Pfaff is clearly the one with the best average rating, so he should be the starting goalkeeper of this supposed ideal set, ahead of Arconada. At right-back, there is a lot of competition, as both Gerets and Gentile were at a very good level. I'll go for Gerets because of his status as a finalist. It was not a good Euro for several of the best European left backs; not in vain, the tournament of Cabrini, Gordillo and Hovenkamp was rather weak, without Dietz being particularly outstanding. Therefore, another Belgian, Renquin, is the obvious candidate for this position. In the center of defense, the Italians Scirea, in the role of sweeper, Collovati in that of stopper were the best evaluated, slightly better than Stielike and Luc Millecamps. In midfield, Schuster, Van Moer and Zamora were indisputable; for a fourth midfielder there were several candidates, Hansi Muller, Haan, Wilkins, Briegel and Oriali, some of them versatile in several positions. I will put Hansi Muller, because he played a very important role in the German victory, being a dagger on the left. I have no doubts about Rummenigge and Ceulemans up front. So, this would be the XI based on the ratings: Pfaff; Gerets, Scirea, Collavati, Renquin; Van Moer, Schuster, Zamora, Hansi Muller; Rummenigge, Ceulemans.
From this championship I do not have too many proposals for XI's, as I have seen some identical to others, but with the appearance of different sources. It is very curious as there is a very similar equivalence to the XI coming from the criterion that I have put a few minutes ago. However, with the exception of the left back in which Renquin's authority is obvious, in the rest of the rearguard positions there is a double or triple tie, so, if I had to choose a definitive XI, I would point to the one I mentioned in the previous post, with only one doubt, whether to place Schuster or Van Moer next to Zamora. 1.- Placar; 2.- Ladbarugas; 3.- Sport (Zurich); 4.- Kicker; 5.- Ceskoslovensky Sport; 6.- La Lanterne 7.- El Gráfico; 8.- Corriere dello Sport; 9.- UEFA; 10.- German Enciclopedy Arconada 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 TOTAL Pfaff Schumacher 1 Schuster Alemania 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 50 2 Rummenigge Alemania 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 50 Gentile Collovati Krol Renquin 3 Ceulemans Bélgica 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 50 Kaltz Scirea K.H. Forster 4 Van Moer Bélgica 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 40 Gerets 5 Renquin Bélgica 5 5 5 5 5 5 30 6 Zamora España 5 5 5 5 5 5 30 Van Moer Schuster Zamora H. Muller 7 Krol Holanda 5 5 5 5 5 25 8 Muller, Hansi Alemania 5 5 5 5 5 25 Ceulemans Rummennige 9 Gentile Italia 5 5 5 5 20 10 Collovati Italia 5 5 5 5 20 11 Kaltz Alemania 5 5 5 5 20 12 Scirea Italia 5 5 5 5 20 13 Forster, Karl Heinz Alemania 5 5 5 5 20 14 Gerets Bélgica 5 5 5 5 20 15 Arconada España 5 5 5 15 16 Pfaff Bélgica 5 5 5 15 17 Schumacher Alemania 5 5 5 15 18 Wilkins Inglaterra 5 5 5 15 19 Briegel Alemania 5 5 5 15 20 Allofs, Klaus Alemania 5 5 10 21 Watson Inglaterra 5 5 22 Sansom Inglaterra 5 5 23 Stielike Alemania 5 5 24 Ondrus Checoslovaquia 5 5 25 Antognoni Italia 5 5 26 Keegan Inglaterra 5 5 27 Zoff Italia 5 5 28 Tardelli Italia 5 5 29 Hrubesch Alemania 5 5