The best players of Euro 80

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    those stats data are specifically used by BETTING and SCOUTING teams internally ... unfortunately there is no gain in pubplic view for that! I know that in EPL along Opta had everything for players and even coach since 70s - I suggest you can wirte to Martin Tyle in Skysports Football and see.
     
  2. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    schwuppe

    Following on from this I wanted to let you both know that Opta have just put a bit on their website whereby you can compare individual performances from every World Cup since 1966. Put in the tournament and the nation and player and go from there. Fascinating in my opinion. Would love to see someone try and extract the stats.

    http://www.optasports.com/
     
    schwuppe repped this.
  3. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I will try.
     
  4. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Excellent.

    BTW, I just asked the head of marketing at Opta if they ever considered putting out their stats in a book and he said that since they were a Business to Business company (ie they provide their stats to other media organisation) it was only through twitter and this widget that they released them in order to avoid a conflict of interest.
     
  5. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Slight off topic, but the 'penalties won' stat can't be right.
    Cruyff and Eusebio both have zero. :confused:
     
  6. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    So does Gary Lineker (won two against Cameroon in 1990). That is wrong, not sure why.
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Suggestion:

    Take first 100 in the Castrol ranking.

    Differentiate in position: FW, MF and DF


    That would provide a good start.

    Most interesting stats are I think: shooting accuracy, passing accuracy, duels won %, recoveries, tackles won%, fouls won, fouls conceded, chances created.
     
  8. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    What are 'Recoveries'?
    What is the difference between 'Duel' and 'Tackle'?
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Recovery
    This is where a player wins back the ball when it has gone loose or where the ball has been played directly to him.

    Tackles
    A tackle is defined as where a player connects with the ball in ground challenge where he successfully takes the ball away from the man in possession.
    A Tackle Won is deemed to be where the tackler or one of his team-mates regains possession as a result of the challenge, or that the ball goes out of play and is “safe”.
    A Tackle Lost is where a tackle is made but the ball goes to an opposition player.

    Duels
    A duel is an 50-50 contest between two players of opposing sides in the match. For every Duel Won there is a corresponding Duel Lost depending on the outcome of the Duel.


    -------

    Problem with everything is that it requires interpretation. A high amount of fouls drawn can be interpreted in two ways: a magnet for dirty defenders or high level of protection from ref. Depending on context.

    Also a reason why some are overdoing it when Iniesta is debated. Players have a role to play and that role might very well lead to others accumulating high levels of stats.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Paul Breitner in 1982 is also here categorized as defender while he clearly played in midfield. Same in the Castrol ranking (as mentioned in other thread).
     
  11. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I will not include OPTA Positions in my summary.
    It's hardly revealing if Jairzinho, Xavi and Matthäus are all 'MF'. Stats will give a better insight on the players role.
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I disagree of course.

    What are you planning to do?
     
  13. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    'Of course' you disagree with Beckenbauer and Jairzinho not playing the same position.
    Uhm no sorry why exactly?
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Three reasons:

    1) Position, which is something different as role, has an effect on the stats they show. Defenders will never draw the same amount of fouls as attackers.
    2) Some stats will show low and therefore insignificant numbers by nature. Blocks and clearances will be higher and revealing for defenders while forwards will generally never have more than one or two which makes it unreliable as well. It tells a lot more when you talk about 20, 30 or 40 clearances - big numbers. Similarly, the 'pass accuracy on opponents half' will be very revealing for defenders (in contrast to total pass accuracy) while less relevant for midfielders and forwards.
    3) You can look at who performed the best within their position. Defenders will never have the same chances created stat as midfielders or forwards but can nevertheless rank among the best in their position.

    But why don't you answer the question? What are you planning to do?
     
  15. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I said that I won't use OPTA's position, not that I don't use any positions at all.
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Some other things I found remarkable: Maradona has an insane high aerial duels won %. Cruijff has a high shot accuracy, in the regions of Gerd Müller (or higher even) and higher as Romario or Ronaldo.

    Stats also show what I said earlier: Eusebio was really the complete forward and also defensively strong. He has the record amount of shots on target in a world cup (with 31) but also a low shot accuracy (50.8%). Maybe he was forced to do too much on his own?
     
  17. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    The 'shot accuracy' stat is kind of missleading.
    It measures '% of shots on target' and not '% of goals per shot'.

    Eusebio's 'goals per shot' is 0,1. For comparison Jairzinho has 0,58 and Rossi 0,46.
    Müller in 1974 0,2.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    That can be misleading as well. Both can be misleading and revealing.

    Eusebio66 has in that way you propose 14.7%

    Cruijff74 17.6%

    Romario94 15.1%

    Ronaldo02 28.5%

    Müller70 38.4%

    Pelé70 15.3%
     
  19. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    What does 'shots on target %' reveal?
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It measures a kind of shot proficiency irrespective of goalkeeper qualities. That is one thing (when compared with the other stat).

    It is also less sensitive to shooting position as the alternative you provide. I.e. if you shoot from 20 meters distance you might say 'good job' to yourself if you aim between the posts.
    In contrast, if you miss from 6 meters distance (or hit the goalkeeper) you have to explain something.

    That might also provide an explanation for why a high percentage of Müller his shots on target resulted in a goal while his overall 'OPTA SA%' is not better as the others. If you understand what I mean.

    Same with Paulo Rossi in 1982 (7 shots on target, 6 goals).
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    As simplification I'd say that the first one comes closer to 'shot proficiency', i.e. can you aim the ball remotely where it is supposed to land; the other one comes closer to 'finishing proficiency', how many shots does someone need to score a goal (from close range).
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Other strange thing:

    According to FIFA Messi attempted 30 shots in 2010WC.

    According to OPTA only 21 shots.

    FIFA has 50% shot accuracy (total shots/shots on target), OPTA 57.1%

    OPTA says: 12 shots on target, 9 shots off target.

    FIFA says: 15 shots on target, 15 off target.


    Difference is maybe related to amount of blocked shots.



    FIFA also notices amount of shots blocked. That are 7 blocked shots at 2010WC, so what account for the difference between 21 and 30 shots?
     
  23. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Well STATS only be meaningful when the number of samples is HIGH. Hence there are 2 scenarios:
    1- can not compare MF vs ST/FW, unless the samples are even higher ...
    2- At NT or WC/Euro level is differet from club level for many reasons

    So take Rossi at WC82 as >50% (a few shots per game and all landed in goal) is totally misleading compared to some others with many more games. It would be more accurate if we take it over at least 100 shots (like over the season) and compare them as FW and MF in different category= again unless we take 300+shots as samples.

    The closest STATS one between NT and Club was Ronaldo:
    - Shot accuracy = shots on target/ number of shots >50%
    - Shot successful rate = goals/shots on target >40%
    Overall he got ~30% goals/shots

    For example WC02 8goals/18shots on target/28shots => 44% succesful rate, and 64% accuracy
    At club: average 1goal /5,6 shots (at Real) and 1goal/7shots at Barca/Inter
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What is the source for this?
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

Share This Page