The best Dutch Footballers of All Time - recalculated

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by PuckVanHeel, Oct 19, 2011.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Ok in short:

    Rijkaard almost always played well for NT and his career on highest level lasted from 1985 (maybe already 1984) to 1995. Yes, he was a defensive player but always stepped up his game in finals. Look at the goals and assists he had in finals and tournaments. He had apart from his defensive game also attacking wise something to offer. It is often a commonplace to say about a defensive legend "he could also attack" but in case of Rijkaard he made decisive moves in very important games (vs Germany in 1992; Denmark 1992; EC 1989 final; CL 1995 final; the intercontinental cup finals and so on).
    Rijkaard played well at 1994WC and without those two offside goals who knows what had happened? Where was Gullit during 1994WC?

    You don't have to agree with it but Rijkaard has some strong points over Gullit. Hopefully you see that.

    Realize as well that this list was made in 1999

    Blind is rated high because remained loyal to his club and rejected offers from others clubs. He was a leader and later on also a captain. Apart from that, he was successful and highly rated during his career. According to the fans who loved the libero role, he was one of the best of his time. I have to say that he is just like Van Hanegem underrated in Ballon d'Or lists (Sammer was not a class better as him, for sure).
    His international career was cut short because Cruijff started a campaign to include both Menzo and Blind in the national team, at the expense of Koeman and Van Breukelen. Rinus Michels fired back and responded with not selecting them at all. Michels said: if I select those, I select a fifth column in my squad, I select moles in my team.
    So Blind his national team career was cut short.

    It is debatable but for various reasons I tend to rate him higher as Seedorf, Van Dijk, Stam and certainly Haan.
    Davids and Van der Sar is debatable; Davids had a high peak and was tremendous for the team (according to some the best player of 1998-2000 team) and Van der Sar has one of the highest clean sheets ratios of all time. Van der Sar is often underrated in all-time lists. Despite playing for the Netherlands, his clean sheets ratio and goals per game conceded is one of the best of all time!

    Seedorf looks good with his 4 UCL but he played for a corrupt Milan team (the Moggi-Galliani partnership), was arrogant and never played good for the national team. Was always a negative element in the squad.
    Blind was club-wise almost as successful and that for a 'poor' club, with a more important role to play and without all scandals. Seedorf was a borderline role-player for Milan (also a reason why I do not rate Maldini that high) while Blind was really instrumental for Ajax and their complicated tactics (hopefully you remember that their tactics were very complicated to execute properly). And he was good for the national team, generally.

    I can also see the other side of the arguments but a strong case for Blind exists certainly. From a solely Dutch point of view, Blind did (unintentionally) more for his home country. That is childish but it does matter in lists like this.
     
  2. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Well I did not realize you consider "loyalty and nice personality" into this kinda rating :oops:

    So one might put Giggs and Scholes way a head of Di Stefano (NT LOL) or Ronaldo (club teams)as they changed teams more often?
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes James, loyalty is a relevant intervening factor in rating players. Maybe you do disagree with it but I disagree with the opposite: that only careers at big clubs are taken into account by 'foreigners'. Stoichkov was for example already quite good at Sofia and Van Basten was not a worse player at Ajax as in Milan. Platini in France is another good example.
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I do not totally disagree or so to speak. For me every reasonable criteria are counted but to what DEGREE. Hence my rule of thump is POINTS (or weighs) per criterion

    For example some criteria to rate a player in order of "importance" (points are suggestive)
    1- Ball skills and natural talent (basic as a MUST) = 10
    2- Achievement with the team = 9
    3- Achievement individually = 9
    4- Ability to lead or help team in winning = 8 (like creativity or win game singlehandedly)
    5- Ability to play in big games and against big teams = 7
    6- Leadership = 6
    7- Teamwork = 5
    8- Versatility = 5
    9- Athleticsm = 4
    10 - LOYALTY and NICE personality = 2 :eek:
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I said loyalty is an intervening factor. So, a person that plays individually well at the same club can be equally great as a gloryhunter who jumps regularly to a next club. That gloryhunter maybe accumulates five UCL but can be overall inferior to someone with one UCL but played individually great for a looong period of time
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    OK I got that ... good examples of the likes Batistuta and Totti with Roma vs their team mates in bigger clubs of Crespo abd Del Piero
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Here some excerpts of a profile written in 1997 by a journalist (Jean Nelissen) grown up in the same region as him (Limburg).

    Hope it is informative and a good story. Profile is a mixture of a column and an informative article, but the facts and quotes mentioned are correct.

    Tried it as good as I could.

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Dullens
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  8. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    my own personal list.

    1 johan cruyff (needs no explanation)
    2 willem van hanegem (almost the perfect player. great technique and passing abilities, great header, good game intelligence and mentality. also very very good defensively.
    3 marco van basten (could have gotten higher on the list if his career hadn't been cut short due to injuries).
    4 ruud gullit (very versatile player could play almost anywhere very powerfull to.
    5 faas wilkes (amazingly gifted player).
    6 ruud krol (also an underrated player belongs to the top 10 leftbacks of all tiem and the top 10 central defenders of all time)
    7 robbie rensenbrink (probably more gifted then cruyff allthough cruyff being the overall betetr player ofcourse. robbie helped anderlecht become a european powerhosue in the mid to late 70's. nicknamed the snakeman)
    8 johan neeskens (top 3 box to box midfielders of all time)
    9 frank rijkaard (top 3 defensive midfiedlers of all time)
    10 jan van beveren (criminally underrated outside holland top 10 all tiem goalkeepers. great catlike reflexes very gracieus goalkeepr also in his actions)

    honorable mentions : dennis bergkamp (ofcourse for his techincal abilities) arie haan also a very very allround player could play perfectly good at least in 5 or 6 different positions in the field
     
  9. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Nice list ... but I would put Van Basten as #2 and Krol shoudl be in TOP5
     
  10. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    if van basten did not got lost for football early due to injuries he may have been higher on the list but van hanegem was so complete so great player really underestimated outside holland. i saw him many a times almost no weak spots this man.
    changing krol and wilkes i have no problem with.

    krol also gets a bit underrated because first part of career leftbakc and secodn part he played libero. but trust me in both positions he was so good. unbelievable natural leader he was.
    imo he could play in at least 3 to 4 positions in a team perfectly well
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    A bit sad that we haven't had any good top 10 candidates anymore in the past 15 years :( But it is the way it is. The Europa League final was played in Amsterdam of course and Platini showed his face too. Well the usual things and problems passed by but as the Twente chairman said in the item "it is like 'Holland warns China for the final time'" (he said that literally). That is how it is, the big got bigger and the small got smaller.
    The good news is that 'we' do it a bit better at the Olympics as 15 years ago (with relatively modest financial means, per capita).

    About Van Basten, it is possible to place him anywhere between two and five. But his background story and the fact that he had 24 hours a day pain since 1986 makes it extra impressive what he did afterwards. Shows his talent in a way. On pure talent top four sure.


     
  12. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Fully agree ...
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Wim (or: Willem) van Hanegem is by Dutchman commonly placed among the five best players the country has known. In terms of importance and abilities. Many even go as far to place him over the likes of Van Basten and Gullit.
    Meanwhile, outside the Netherlands he is known, but usually overlooked by the clueless people.

    In order to explain a bit of why is rated inside the Netherlands, reasons of course not totally related to football, I will translate a documentary and an interview with the 'grandmaster' himself.

    The documentary/profile was called 'the erratic ways of a teddy bear'


    Host: "1983. In a filled De Kuip says Wim van Hanegem, then aged 39, farewell to his public. At this moment Ben Wijnstekers is the team captain of Feyenoord, and undoubtedly an admirer of the old master. But also Wijnstekers knows how it was to meet the beast Van Hanegem as a young player."

    Interviewer: "Did he scoff at you?"
    Wijnstekers: "Oh yeah. Very often."
    Gene (television presenter): "For Willem nothing is excellent."
    Wijnstekers: "If I made a good ball - I thought - it was always totally wrong."
    Gene: "All is just OK for him. And if someone is really good, it is decent for him."
    Wijnstekers: "At the beginning that is a tough dealing. Because you wonder whether he hates you or so."
    Hans Kraaij (Feyenoord legend, later manager, born and grown up in Utrecht as well): "He likes someone, or doesn't like him. Someone is OK, or someone is worthless."
    Wijnstekers: "You think it is the way it goes. He was the great Van Hanegem."
    Gene: "Accidentally, Willem told last time again how Jan Wouters at FC Utrecht was called 'Jan Waters' at one moment, because every week he received a lecture by Willem, with as result that Wouters left the training, crying. And Willem was the main protagonist in this play."
    Wijnstekers: "It was sometimes hard."
    Gene: "And also Mario Been went crying time after time to his home, because Willem... Mario came to him and said: 'That was a good match isn't it?' And Willem replied: 'It was garbage.'"
    Wijnstekers: "This is also a Willem proverb he had; as long as I talk to you, I provide indications to you, I have good intentions with you. If Willem thought 'it is your turn', yes, then it became a difficult affair with him."
    Interviewer: "Then he is finished with you?"
    Wijnstekers: "Yes, then he was done with you. That was typically Willem. Multiple players were ignored by him, not openly with theatrics, but those players he did not care for had a hard time to make it. Most of them did not make it."
    Gene: "It is better to receive a good bashing by him as that he says totally nothing to you. I also say this for my own inner peace, haha."
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Host: "The great Van Hanegem is still the great Van Hanegem. Now not the once brilliant midfielder any more, of course, but the football analyst and personality on television. The operating instructions are, as ever, complicated."
    Johan Derksen (editor of largest football magazine): "One thing is out of the question. You should never engage in a duel with Van Hanegem, publicly."
    Gene: "If I tighten the screws a bit, I hear from people of my generation [mid to late 30s, PvH] that I touch something breakable."
    Interviewer: "Really?"
    Gene: "Yes. You touch Willem. Is the remark."
    Derksen: "Because he has such an enormous charisma. From a working class hero like Van Hanegem you can never win. The man is widely adored by the big masses, and at the moment you approach Van Hanegem the crowd will fall over you."
    Hans Kraaij: "Oh yes. You do not have to say too much negative things because then you sign your own death warrant. Also here in front of your camera. Then it will be: 'Did you hear him. Not nice. Not kind.'"
    Derksen: "It is very difficult to question him. Because that immediately results in a bad atmosphere."
    Hans Kraaij: "I think that the most untouchable man of the Dutch football world bears the name Willem van Hanegem. Cruijff can also be placed in this discussion - maybe I should not exaggerate too much but still...."
    Interviewer: "But you cannot permit to say something really bad?"
    Hans Kraaij: "No. No. Without a doubt you receive some bangs back."

    Derksen: "It is a bit unfair that I should state a wide array of things to earn a new contract extension while Willem only has to sit there. He can say for the entire evening nothing. But if Willem sits there the Netherlands is satisfied; 'OK lads, everything is assured, because Willem is present.'"
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Host: "A difficult man but still the national teddy bear. Because even though Van Hanegem is a bit grainy, deep inside lives the sensitive man. Everyone knows."
    Kraaij: "I think Willem is a sentimentalist man, absolutely. But he doesn't want to be designated as an emotional man, I think that too."

    Host: "He is born in Breskens, son of a fisher, Lo van Hanegem. At the bombardment of Breskens, 11 September 1944, his father and his brother Isaac died."
    Derksen: "The father of Willem concealed in a barn. Unfortunately this barn was hit by a bomb and the father of Willem tried to protect a baby, by using his body as a carpet over the baby. And the unrelated baby was indeed saved from trouble, but the father died. Willem himself was of course very young."
    Host: "The legacy of this incident is a lifelong disgust against Germans. A fact that would haunt him later on in his life."

    Interviewer (on archive image): "What do you think about Germans?"
    Van Hanegem (on archive image): "Yeah... Not exactly my type I think."
    Interviewer: "Now leaving all jokes behind - why?"
    Van Hanegem: "What uhhh."
    Interviewer: "No I'm dead serious now. End with the jokes for a moment. Why is the dislike so deep inside? Can you tell?"
    Van Hanegem: "I don't think the people are interested in this."
    Wijnstekers (who sees this too): "Of course people are interested."

    Gene: "Willem is no supporter of the Germans, indeed. That is primarily related to his upbringing as a person and player, and the death of his father and brother.

    The most funny anecdote is perhaps how some German player had a trial at Feyenoord, mid to late 60s. He would challenge the place of Wery. He was called Grabowski, coming over from Frankfurt.

    And the Feyenoord players showed him all corners of the field. Kicked him towards a broken state. The guy was even happy to leave.
    Also in the way Willem can tell these things. You know, you see that I have to laugh a bit now but if you see Willem elaborate on these matters he has a Satanic smile."

    Host: "After the bombardment the family moves to Utrecht. At school the young Willem finds it hard to make progress."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "I was enrolled but the last year I had a sufficient grade... but... that was for cunningness or so."
    Derksen: "Yes. Willem doesn't possess an education or diploma, but he is streetwise."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "The bell rang, so I could go home. That was the finest moment."

    Host: "Football club Velox. The footballer Van Hanegem is discovered by accidence."
    Derksen: "Willem was always looking at the practices. The training. Willem himself was no member of Velox, he never owned or used football shoes. Van Hanegem played on the street with a few friends.
    And when a ball went out of play, Willem kicked the ball back. Also with outside left and with curl. Back to trainer Daan van Beek. And that man thought after a while: 'What is that for guy.'"
    Interviewer: "We can use him."
    Derksen: "Who kicked all the balls back very well, who is no member. Van Beek had thus a chat with him. Willem became a member of Velox. Van Hanegem was already 17 years old, closing in on his 18th birthday, before he played for the first time at a football club, with football shoes, in the way the laws of the game stipulate the procedures."
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "I was at the rags, working with metal. Chimney sweeper. I had a carrier cycle. And from my home a took a few of the lighter guys with my bicycle to Velox. To the training."
    Host: "Van Hanegem is relatively quick in earning a semi-professional contract at the Eredivisie club Xerxes. He immediately turns out to be a highly talented player."
    Derksen: "Willem was from the very first day at Xerxes a big personality."
    Gene: "He could think some steps ahead, very simple steps but sometimes too much for his other team mates. That was his insight in the play."
    Kraaij: "A phenomenal insight of the game."
    Host: "A great understanding of the game, while his eyes do not really participate".
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "I cannot read the newspaper in the morning. The other eye - for six or seven years - I can only see for 10% with it."
    Kraaij: "I was perplexed when I heard it."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "But I kept it silenced, because I wanted to play."
    Kraaij: "You would wish every player has such bad eyes."
    Gene: "Some months ago we had a discussion about this. He told me how he could handle the ball based on his feeling. He was able to hear how the ball was hit, how fast the ball was and where the ball would arrive. I said: 'That is impossible Willem'. But he says to this day that he and some players can do this. Based on his ears and senses he was able to execute many things. Some players are able to head a ball in complete darkness, he maintains [note: documentary/profile dates from 2007]. But how is one able to head a ball with only 10% sight? He is certain that it is possible."

    Host: "At Xerxes Van Hanegem finds the spotlights. When placed on the inside-forward position at a 4-2-4 he scored 26 goals, losing the topscorer title because of not taking penalties."
    Derksen: "That was also a good team for him. With a few good and technical players, maybe frail but Van Hanegem could surface. Robbie Jacbobs was such a player as a good fit."
     
  17. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    yeah puck i saw this documentary several times.
    allthough i am an ajax man and not a great admirer of feyenoord like many dutch people i have a soft spot for willem vna hamegem.
    did you remember in the mid 90's when louis van gaal was coach of the great ajax side of that era and van hamegem was coach of feyenoord they both trained a youth team of mentally reatrded kids for a game agaisnt echother ??

    it was shown on tv. van gaal ws telling these kids like you are the nr. 4 you should move in if the nr. 10 goes upfront etc etc. all the van gaal talk we know rom him.
    willm van hanegem just said to the retarded kids : boys go out and have fun. he even went to a retarded kid with a runny nose and cleaned the kids nose with the sleeve of his own jacket.

    willem is indeed a workign class hero. gave away all his money to people who needed it. when his career ended end his wife divorced him he gave her and his kids everythign he had.

    been to his house 2 timesvery nice person always gettign food and drinsk fom him and his former wife truus.

    besides his personality like i said before a very very complete player i am a 100% confinced if willem left feyenoord and went to a big soutern european club he would be ranked upthere with the best ever.

    myself i have him after cruyff as the best dutch player ever.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord


    I'm not finished with translating btw.

    I will also translate an interview. As introduction it had some images of him as a player, with 'shine on crazy diamond' as background song.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #44 PuckVanHeel, Nov 2, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
    Host: "Rob Jacobs. He will never forget the first impression of his old team mate at Xerxes."
    Jacobs: "Football had generally entered a certain phase. I can give you an example, what happened. In an away game against MVV. Toennaer was very firm and a hard-man of them. A strong defender. He kicked my socks into little ribbons, and with the tears in my eyes I said against my colleague: 'Willem, what can we do? You see, my socks '. He only said: 'Wait a minute.' And five minutes later Toennaer left the field on a stretcher. He was carried off the field, as if it is common procedure. Then I had suddenly guts, walked to the stretcher and said: 'Did you see that wise-ass?' And Willem had a look at me: 'Jacobs, we go on. The match continuous, come on.' That was incredible, and also in that game..."
    Interviewer: "Hold on for a minute. So Willem did the dirty work when it was necessary?"
    Jacobs: "Yes, he accepted the glove and earned respect. He said: 'No problem to solve this. You cannot do it, so it is my turn.'"
    Interviewer: "He just kicked his opponents out of the game?"
    Jacobs: "Yeah, he said then: 'I will have a little talk.'"

    Host: "Van Hanegem as destructor of opponents, when duty calls. His duels with Neeskens, against Ajax and also Barcelona, are legendary."
    Derksen: "Willem was ruthless. Willem was mean, vicious, malicious. When it was necessary and possible to retaliate."
    Kraaij (looking at Neeskens vs Van Hanegem): "A game of chicken. Who was the first to back off or succumb."
    Gene: "Van Hanegem broke once the jaw of Neeskens. A day later he went to the hospital, and brought peanuts with him as a present for Neeskens."
    Derksen: "Van Hanegem was also in the air strong."
    Jacobs (seeing the Neeskens vs Van Hanegem images): "And he keeps looking at him after the duel, knowing where he walks."
    Derksen: "If Willem had printed a number in his mind, for example in case a team mate of him was assaulted by someone, then Van Hanegem solved this. He remembered the shirt number, played in his vicinity. And then... he was really able to kick someone out of the game. With a smile on his face."
    Gene: "Soren Lerby was once in our television studio, and we know how he was as a player. He sat there next to Willem and said unexpectedly how Willem punched him knockout. Not once but twice. And both laughed loud about this incident, by the way."
    Derksen: "Typically, he once broke the nose of Neeskens, a bruised eye and a few painful ribs - some broken. And three days later they played together as close friends on the midfield of the national team. Nothing had happened."
    Wijnstekers: "Willem was quite fast I see and remember now. People think he was very slow. But he always said to us: 'Hastiness is worthless, you have to depart on time.' I found that... He often had great remarks and expressions."
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Here some other good interview with him
    http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2844...il/903983/2008/03/22/Willem-van-Hanegem.dhtml
     
    JamesBH11 repped this.
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Host: "The generation led by Van Hanegem and Cruijff places the futile football nation the Netherlands on the world map. The Netherlands are suddenly given a face and image."
    [images of Van Hanegem playing against Milan]
    Gene: "As boy of five years old I received a pin from my grandpa. And my grandpa said: 'The best player of the world plays at the best club in the world, that is Willem van Hanegem, and he plays at Feyenoord.' My granddad died very shortly after this gift and I always saved this pin. And 20 years later the real Van Hanegem came on my path. At one moment we said farewell and we all wrote on a board a few wishes and aphorisms. And I wrote within my saying: 'Willem, thank you, also in behalf of my granddad.' Then he asked later: 'Chap, what is the meaning?' 'Nevermind, all sentimentalist nonsense.' And he said: 'No, I want to know it'. So I told him the story of my pin and then Willem becomes more emotional with tears in his eyes as myself. I become a bit clumsy and uncomfortable and he said: 'Why did you not tell me this earlier? That is a wonderful story isn't it?' 'It is all just noise and so.'"
    Interviewer: "What does that say about the person Van Hanegem?"
    Gene: "Yeah... That he is principally a pure human being inside. Then suddenly all the sturdiness, the masque, the aloofness, the whimsical is suddenly gone."

    Host: "At Feyenoord Van Hanegem meets after one year Ernst Happel as manager. The somewhat mysterious Austrian who sees the bar as often as the field."
    Interviewer: "What type of man was Happel?"
    Gene: "A bit like Willem."
    Jacobs: "If you walked inside, it turned into silence."
    Wijnstekers: "No nonsense. That is what he always said. No nonsense."
    Derksen: "No, no. He never said anything. He never said much."
    Kraaij: "If you ask to former players of Brugge and Feyenoord what made the man so good? You get no answer. What did he do before a game? No answer. What did he do at half time? No answer. But everything he said was good and touched the core. How did he train? Had he well-thought practice material? No, of course not. Nothing special or revolutionary."
    Wijnstekers: "He did not say a great amount, but at the moment you did not perform according to his instructions you were out. Or he refused to pay attention. And that is typically also a trait of Willem."
    Interviewer: "How was the relationship between Happel and Van Hanegem do you think?"
    Jacobs: "Undoubtedly very good and very close."
    Interviewer: "Was it father-son?"
    Jacobs: "I am close to saying it was even more than that."
    Derksen: "Happel was just like Willem streetwise. And Happel had always a special relationship with his midfield cracks at the clubs he managed. He stayed friends with his star, because that were the players who made or broke a match for his teams. And who made from him an all time great manager. At Feyenoord Willem was completely in command, the one with the most important vote, strategically the leader, with the backing of Happel."
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Here from 10:43 onwards you can hear Van Hanegem talking about Happel.


    He himself has often spoken about a 'love-hate relationship' with Happel but that is maybe also typical for Van Hanegem. As also the documentary I am translating says: Van Hanegem saw Happel during the very last hours of his life, as one of the few persons. Happel his son also said: "I know who was crying at his grave."
    http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698...l-beter-kon-vader-het-niet-zeggen-rsquo.dhtml

    He also said once after another disagreement with tactics: "The tedious thing is, I see myself back in 'the crooked' [Van Hanegem his nickname was 'the crooked']."
    Show Spoiler
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Host: "In 1970 Feyenoord is the first Dutch club to win the European Cup."
    Kraaij (seeing the images): "That is unbelievable huh? What happened there."
    Jacobs: "The great man in this year and the preceding championship year was Van Hanegem, though."
    Derksen: "Van Hanegem was the pivot of the team. The team circled around him."
    Kraaij: "A team that could really play without mercy."

    Host: "In a firm team, the duo Laseroms-Israel formed the tough duo in the defence."
    Derksen: "They simply forbid a forward of the opposition to enter the penalty area. And if he tried nevertheless, it was at his own risk."
    Jacobs: "The anecdote is that it was safer to move from East-Germany to West-Germany as moving past an agitated Israel and Laseroms."
    Wijnstekers (seeing the victory images): "A day later I stood at the Coolsingel."
    Jacobs: "Rotterdam was of course totally mad."
    Wijnstekers: "6 May 1970."
    Jacobs: "Yes, everyone who saw it has saved it in their head..."
    Interviewer: "A frozen memory."
    Jacobs: "Yes."

    Kraaij (seeing the celebrations and ceremony): "This is also peculiar. You do not see Van Hanegem here. Not at the foreground."
    Gene: "Willem is not someone of the party noise. True. Of the mass euphoria."

    Host: "The cult hero is born. Willem van Hanegem, public property. This is also true for his wife, Truus."

    Derksen (seeing images of Van Hanegem his home): "Yes, this is that home in Leerbroek. And yes, that was just like a children's farm.
    I really never saw a family like that one, in the sense where so many people visited him and entered his home. Where everyone - really everyone - could have a dinner, where strangers could even sleep at his home.
    If a colleague of him had problems, then he was adopted by Willem as stepson. It was all possible. And if you came into his garden, it had sheep, horses, dirt bikes and five dogs who wanted to smell your willy."
    Interviewer: "Sociable?"
    Derksen: "Many felt comfortable over there."

    Gene: "Yeah, everyone was there. Later on you had Andre Hazes [a singer] who played Pacman during the night. Then Willem woke up and Hazes was sleeping in his chair, with Pacman still circling the screen.

    The first famous player's wife was in my eyes, and the eyes of many, Truus van Hanegem. What Sylvie Meis is nowadays was Truus in a completely different way, but nevertheless the first who did not shy away from the cameras."
    Kraaij: "Yes, Truus and Willem. Willem and Truus. Those became inseparable in the public mind. That was new."
    Derksen: "As you see, they were even trend-setters because they already had a real-life soap. Because everyone could enter with a camera. No restrictions."
    Wijnstekers (seeing it): "Feyenoord costume, and his wife wishes him good luck."
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #49 PuckVanHeel, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
    Host: "The Netherlands knows Willem as the master of the understatement. A 'William of Orange' without attire."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "I supplied to the national team a re-appreciation of old values. In short: some relaxation. When the national anthems are played you saw with some countries those set and straight faces in a tidy row, like the military. Well, I did not want to see a change to this attitude too in our team and so Suurbier joined, Neeskens, Jansen. Jansen was quite small so he was for the low tones. When the anthem started we became a little bit creative for each match."
    Derksen: "This is a polite version of the story."

    [images of 1974 World Cup]

    Host: "Almost everything is relative, except West Germany. 1974, the world championships. The lost final against the host. Cruijff and Van Hanegem take the kick-off."
    Jacobs: "There are the two best we ever had. Absolute top players. And if you have those two in your team, then you have won the jackpot as country. And the Germans did a daylight robbery."
    Kraaij: "His worst football day was of course 1974. The lost final, the city, stage and with that opponent."
    Derksen: "He heard of course as child all those stories. The bombardment in Breskens, and elsewhere. What this had for impact at the family. And it resulted in some sort of ingrained hate."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "That afternoon I wanted to... I had the intention put them at their place. I wanted to make an attempt. And that I think..."
    Interviewer: "Do you mean with 'put them at their place' a humiliation?"
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "Yes. Well, that is what you say... I have to be a bit polite. Yet, this costed us the match."

    Derksen: "The payback he had in his mind went into overdrive, because he never really tried it in the final."
    Interviewer: "I wanted to humiliate them, he admitted once."
    Derksen: "True, but Willem was also the player to do that. Willem had the character and personality that he could win from everyone, but he could also embarrass someone. Both with the ball, and with his behaviour and manners."
    Interviewer: "That is what he wanted to do with all of Germany?"
    Derksen: "That is what he preferred to save for the right stage, the right venue and the right moment. Right at the epicenter, and the whole world was watching. And yes, the plan did not start at all on that day."
    Interviewer: "How terrible was that for him?"
    Derksen: "He had problems to get some sleep for months. It was something he aspired to do for a while: 'Those Krauts will see me at their own center in the final.'"

    Van Hanegem (archive image): "That was the thing you wanted."
    Interviewer: "You did not only want to win but, more importantly, you also wanted to show them the corner. You was not professional."
    Van Hanegem: "Yes. Yes. So to speak, I was able to give away everything for that single aim."

    Gene (seeing images of the small Dutch minority of supporters on the stands, who celebrates): "It was wonderful, at the same time a horrific event."
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #50 PuckVanHeel, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
    Host: "Towards the public at large the figure Van Hanegem becomes more popular as Johan Cruijff. An image that he also seems to cherish and preserve."

    Interviewer: "Is also some calculation at play?"
    Derksen: "Nothing human is alien to him."
    Kraaij: "If a footballer has to become an actor then Van Hanegem has to be the best actor of all footballers."
    Interviewer: "How an actor?"
    Kraaij: "He drops silences at the right moments. If he doesn't want to give an answer, or the question isn't liked then he keeps looking at the person for a while in a firm and yet reassuring way. Yes... It is a very unusual personality."
    Interviewer: "But you say actor."
    Kraaij: "Yes. Willem acts since his youth. That is beyond question."

    Host: "At contract negotiations with Feyenoord Truus and Willem use the media."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "Before the end of the competition they sent me a new contract. That is 75000 Guilders [30000 Euro]. I know it is a lot, but it was all-in. Thus including match-fees, vacation bonus, friendly games, European games."
    Derksen: "Yes, if you see this then you know how some earn 250000 Euro a week."
    Truus van Hanegem (archive image): "But yes, for me personally only the earnings count."
    Kraaij (seeing this): "Truus was not really shy isn't it?"
    Truus van Hanegem (archive image): "Where he can earn the most, and if that is Feyenoord, well we stay at Feyenoord."
    Derksen: "That is what I find personally a sad aspect of his life. Later, after his career, he had nothing and had to start from scratch."
    Gene: "Based on the qualities he had, and his charisma, he would be a big earner today."

    Interviewer (archive image): "Where do you like to play the most? Feyenoord, in Paris or Valencia?"
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "Yes... Difficult question... You ask a hard question."
    Kraaij: "For sure he preferred to stay at Feyenoord. No doubt."


    Derksen: "When Willem ended his career, he had no penny left. Literally nothing."
    Interviewer (archive image): "Once you had the chance to go to France. Where they offered more as anyone else. You didn't do that. How did you come to the choice?"
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "The choice wasn't made by me, the dog did."
    [Wijnstekers laughs when seeing this]
    Kraaij (seeing this): "He knows exactly how to amuse the public."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "He had the decisive vote. And if he would make a noise, we would stay at Feyenoord."
    Kraaij: "He knows what lands well at the people. And I have to say that he doesn't think about it, studied before. It arrives spontaneously to his voice. And it worked fantastically; the dog decides whether I leave or stay."
    Interviewer: "But you don't believe it was the reason? It was not the full sequence of events?"
    Kraaij: "No."
    Gene: "I think the dog did what Willem had in mind. Maybe we should leave it at that."
    Van Hanegem (archive image): "To take away any risk I said: 'cats', and then the dog made noise."
    Derksen: "Willem is conscious of what he should say at some moments. And his weak aspect is, and will be, his sentimental character. Because if you touch him at a soft spot, then he breaks down. This vulnerability is also loved by the public. On the one hand the firm rock Van Hanegem, who wins matches and goes his own way. And then the subject changes to the pure untouched - but vulnerable - animals in the world, which guides him to loads of tears."
     
    Vasu repped this.

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