The All Purpose Other Teams Thread - Pt. III (R)

If I got it correctly it was chicken, I think argentine players wil prefer beef or pasta.

 

Personally I would like to see a front 3 of Di Maria---Mess--- Aguero.

There is no doubt that Brazil have the mental edge, especially when it comes to the Copa (although in the last 2 world cups they haven't done any better than us), like Germany and Italy they have the ability to dig out results even when they are not playing well. But with home advantage and the likes of Aguero, Di Maria, Masch, Banega and some bloke called Messi this is the best chance we have for a long time of winning it.

Oh and River Gaucho, cheer up mate, reading your posts is making me depressed.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

Mods should not take sides...you disappoint me. This is a public forum and if I state my opinion without being condenscending then why should it ruffle feathers. Let's bury this exchange it takes us nowhere and concentrate on the substance...of the matter...
By the way I am a long-term member of bigsoccer, only that I forgot my log-in credentials and had to do it again with a slightly different nick..ADIEU!

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

Is Romero THAT bad? Granted, he was the goalkeeper when your team faced Germany last year, but he was also the starting goalkeeper for your team throughout the World Cup. How has his form been since then?

As for Carrizo, after doing some reading on him, he seems like a promising young keeper, although what I read says he made blunders in a recent Rio da Prata vs. Boca match. Has his reputation been "tarnished" for how he treated Fillol?

As for your other post... Gaucho, your team isn't bad at all. You guys will be at home after all and that definitely counts. And really, is Sergio Batista THAT bad a manager? The U-25 team he recently fielded is not the Copa America team Argentina will field.

I know a lot of you guys were pissed after Nigeria and Poland, but that's not the "main" team, then really it shouldn't matter at least as your chances in Copa America are concerned.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

Argentina wants the Cup, so bring your A game. It seems everyone else is going to. This is shaping up to be a very competitive CUP, hopefully it shows thru in the games.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

I came online today specially to see if you were posting. I'm pleasantly surprised that you were here. How have you been?

I'm interested in your opinion of Brazil and Neymar. Your defense is solid but what do you think about the MF and Attack. Also what do you think about attacking with Maicon and Alves? Can the midfield hold up with Maicon and Alves going forward so much?

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

Cosmos! how are you man, all's well here, hope you're well too. I salute your team - you guys had an amazing run in the Libertadores and it was simply a stroke of bad luck you guys didn't get past Penarol. At least your team is still contending for the title in your league. Both the match in Montevideu and at Liniers were epic Libertadores games.

It's not a bad team, but I do wonder whether Nilmar being absent will haunt us later on. I also think that Hulk could have been used as a bench player - the four forwards are physically "small" (except for Fred who's average-sized).

Neymar is highly talented; I see him as a guaranteed starter for us in 2014. But he does need to add more muscle - he's still a teenager and come the World Cup, European fullbacks will not hesitate to pound on him. Hopefully he will be stronger then, just as Ronaldo went from a scrawny teenager in 1994 to a healthier, all-around athlete in 1998.

As for midfield, I'm glad Elano will be there given he's solid at passing and has plenty of experience. I would've thrown Hernanes in there as well - not sure if Menezes has been turned off after Hernanes was red-card against France.

Frankly, I think Marcelo from Real Madrid deserved a chance. Andre Santos is all right, but given the Copa America is the one official competition Brazil will have until the 2013 Confeds, this is a good time as any to test players against tough opponents. Friendlies just don't cut it and we won't be in the eliminatorias.

I think the midfield will be fine... we've been playing with advancing right- and left-backs for a long time now.

On that note, I wonder why the Argentine style doesn't focus on "laterais" the way Brazil does. You guys HAVE had the manpower for such positions - Sorin and Zanetti come to mind.

 

You're a bit behind the times there CB.

Sorin is writing poetry nowadays and being a model human being. Il Capitano maybe bionic underneath but even he cannot last forever.

Ansaldi and Tagliafico for the future perhaps or Ismael Quilez perhaps ?

I don't know. Brazil has had a tradition of attacking fullbacks right back to Djalma Santos but more than ever to counter European opposition physicality and bunging up the middle of the pitch they've become the weapon of choice to open defences.

An they've become faster and bigger. Perhaps the CBF or coaches within clubs made it a priority to get these kids into such positions where they showed athleticism.

Argentina still does not place as much emphasis in junior football in that and it should not.

Skill counts for everything and you can get competent sub 5'10" laterals. But lateral development seems to have been lacking for a while since one saw players like Chamot flying up the wing like a train.

Some of the more knowledgeable posters here like msi2 and Andres amongst others say that kids prefer to occupy the roles of defensive mid, striker, winger and engance because it's glamorous.

Being a lateral is not so. But plans are afoot to rectify it instead of converting centrebacks to these specialized positions as at River.

There is no reason why the tradition of great fullbacks like Marzolini cannot be revived again.

The AFA should also copy the CBF in preparing goalkeepers. Brazilian keepers were once a joke not any more.

 

I don't think Argentina have the full backs to play the way Brazil do, Brazil have Alves, Maicon, Adriano and as you say someone like Marcelo can't even get in the squad.

Zanetti is 180 and can't really be expected to be an attacking full back for the full 90 minutes, the one player who can do that role, and has done for Man City, is Zabaleta, but we'll have to wait and see if he gets a place in the starting line up.

Our strength is clearly midfield and up front, the weakness if the defence. Having said that I think Brazil's defence can be got at, it's up to Argentina to get beyond the mystique of Brazil and play the football team Brazil, but Maicon was torn to shreds by Bale, Lucio although a top quality central defender can be very erratic. However, I am making a lot of assumptions, this Copa will, imho, be tougher than the last few, Uruguay have a strong sqaud and Chile will also be dangerous so I don't want to jump ahead of myself and assume that Brazil will play Argentina in the final.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

I had Santos v Velez in the finals. I was already to head south but that stroke of bad luck ended my chances. Now I throw my support behind Santos.

I don't remember such a small (attack) Brazilian team. Adriano, Baptiste, Ronaldo, Luis Fabiano et al were always very strong & physical yet extremely talented players.

I guess that I've grown accustomed to those players and see this new crop as weaker which in turn makes me see them as less capable and less talented although we all know they certainly are not. Sometimes perception counts.

Elano is a workhorse. He's always in the battle and just keeps producing.

I don't know too much about Hernanes, so I can't say much about him.

We've had laterales in the past, it seems that recently we are allowing the position to pilfer away.

There is too much bullshit going on in Argentine soccer. It's just horrendous and it needs to stop. It has affected our game, our teams, our style and our NT.

 

Albiceleste2010,

You made a point also made in this piece from May 2010, right before the World Cup, in which the author claims he likes attacking right- and left-backs and where he gives several examples of how traditional full-backs were improvised on the flanks and later reverted to their positions. A glaring case is Passarella, who according to this author refused to play anywhere else but the back line.

I think we're very fortunate we had Maicon and now have Marcelo (who will not be at Copa America) as well as Dani Alves.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

Velez would've given Santos a run for its money for sure.

Yes, the younger forwards are physically smaller. I hope Luis Fabiano gets back in shape soon, both for my SPFC and for Brazil. He still has a lot to offer.

As I just said to Albiceleste2010, your league "converts" full-backs into right/left-backs. Perhaps it wasn't an accident that Maradona wanted four traditional full-backs for your team last year.

I'm not very familiar with the problems you speak of in your country's league. I imagine that the main teams will remain competitive; like Brazil, your country will always be a top-notch producer of high-level talent. As we've all discussed elsewhere on these forums, sooner or later, the best of the best ultimately play in UEFA. Neymar will most likely be in Europe sometime no later than mid-2012. Even if Santos wins the Libertadores AND the Club World Cup, the financial windfall that Santos gets probably won't be enough to hold him. If anything these successes would just raise his market value and European teams will come over to try to get him.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

The only two clubs with any money are Velez and Lanus, all other clubs are hemorraging money like the day is long.

River, Boca, etc are all money losers. Their main ingredient for failure is the system under which Grondona rules. Also that the clubs are non profit entities doesn't help much either.

The talk will never be about small teams because they are just that small. What you are witnessing now, is the regrowth of the interior teams which has been held down for too long. It was always about Buenos Aires and that finally is coming to a close.

Now with the Copa Argentina we might start to see interior teams come to the forefront and fight for the spots that were taken away from them many many years ago.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

I'm not familiar with these problems... but I'm not sure I agree with what you said about Lanus, Godoy, Banfield in the Libertadores. Godoy Cruz did quite nobly this year - only a defeat to Penarol held them from the round of 16, and this given they were in a very competitive group, with Penarol, Independente, and Liga de Quito. Godoy was my "underdog" team because of how gutsy their play was.

And results-wise, Godoy has a lot to be proud of - they routed Boca in your league (in La Bombonera), they defeated Independente in Avellaneda in the Libertadores, and they also defeated Estudantes da Prata in La Plata, as well as a 2-1 win in Nunez against your team. In other words, in a few months' time, Godoy Cruz defeated the four most "copeiro" teams of your country (3 of them being, along with Penarol, the biggest Libertadores winners in the continent) on their stadiums. Not bad for a "small team" from a small city near the border with Chile.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

So you call yourself a Real Madrid fan, but create an account and all your posts are here on our board.

 

Re: The All Purpose Other Teams Thread, Pt. II (R)

Yes....

 

Sorin was like that while he played too, yet he wasn't much respected...

Quilez is more a centre back.

It didn't really help either when a coaches made an "offensive substitution" the defenders to get the cut for the most part are the fullbacks in favor of the centrebacks, and it still happens. I remember Bilardo mentioning on that many years ago. Honestly I don't like Bilardo, but I guess he was right with that.

But if you look at it, it's pretty much finished with Silvio, after him you can look at all the world cup squads between 1974 and 2010, and probably you'll find yourself with the fullbacks most of the time being the weakest link, like I said a while back, try remembering the players from '78 and '86 from the top of your head and think in which order did the fullbacks came.

But did they really do much? Because other than Julio Cesar I haven't heard much about the others, plus I am not sure if Julio Cesar is such a big thing as they say.

Exactly, that's the same I'm hearing it seems they didn't bring that many "big guys" this time around, got to see if in their case it'll be for the better or worse.

Bah, before Newell's won the title in 2004 many people were complaining on how argentine football was becoming like uruguayan football(wrong assertion) or scottish football with always the same two teams winning everything, for the argentine football as a whole it doesn't make a difference who wins.

Actually I would question Lanús' status and I would include others like Godoy Cruz, Colón, Olimpo and Tigre, also that's always tied to a bias based on success because JUST NOW people brings the "problems" of Estudiantes(Not a big deal either) when their situation isn't different from what it was 1 year ago.

Well if you look at the second division, there's a notable dominance of the indirectly and double-affilied sides.

That rule isn't new however, there's a precedent of that, in 2004, Talleres earned enough points to qualify to the Sudamericana however with their average they had to play the promoción thus they weren't allowed to take part in the cup, in top of that they got relegated after losing the promoción.

 

Huh? Seeing his size, highly doubtful.
I suspect he was more a offensive midfielder who dropped back to a lateral position. That's my speculation though.

 

Yes, I'm sure about that.

Have you guys read or heard the reports of today? Apparently Batista tried with Tevez, Messi and Lavezzi upfront in the practice today, hmm...

 

I am not sure what I make of this, I saw Tevez,Messi,Kun in the past, and it did not pan out. Not sure what Lavezzi will bring to the table. It's going to be interesting to see what Batista decides to actually do.

 

no matter who's the forwards, its actually depend on how great the midfield is...back then when riquelme was on form, it doesnt matter whether its messi, saviola, crespo, figueroa, aguero, etc.... but recently (since diego's era), it seems that they just let the forwards to do the scoring on their own play... expecting individual briliance from messi, tevez, aguero, higuain etc.. that's why it doesnt work against the big side.