The all encompassing Iran thread - Part 3

Yea, Iran hasn't fully disclosed conclusive documents but they have cleared up quite a bit and have been very cooperative. The main criticism is coming from the US, and most of it is really premature and unjustified seeing as how they overlook (purposely or not) various IAEA reports.

Russia and China don't want sanctions either, they have too much at stake in Iran. Believe it or not but Germany and France do as well, each gets something like 4 and 3 billion dollars from iranian imports respectively. They are not as eager to jump on the sanctions/use of force bandwagon. There is still some negotiating to be done in a diplomatic manner.

 

Re: Iran Threatens U.S. With 'Harm and Pain'

I have stated many times I hate the Iranian government and anyone who supports the government and that’s the main reason why I am in the United States right now but Ben you seem to be in love with brain dead Sharon and rest of the Jewish thugs running the so called state of Israel , so if you support Israel why aren’t you in your “promise land”?
I seen that you have a lot of free time since your on this site every day and every minute of your life , why don’t you go to Israel and joined the Jewish army and kill some Arab terrorists instead of sitting behind your computer 24/7 posting your garbage.

 

not to be offensive but I think China's problem wasn't their dislike of conquering the world but the fact that they never could form a strong central government... most of the time China was at internal wars with local warlords but in case of Romans, Persians, etc.. they took a rather modern political approach in establishing central governments and most political problems internally could be solved without wars leaving time and resource for the army to expand the rule of the central government..

 

while Japan, China and Russia will suffer great losses from Iran's sanction, France, UK and Germany will suffer in a different way... it is true that the amount of their trades with Iran (in dollars or Euros) don't exceed couple of billions but the problem is that too many small businesses are involved in these trades and the backlashes of sanctions will be with thousands loosing jobs and many small businesses shut down... big trades with nations supports government’s ability to provide its ppl with good services requires through big projects BUT ppl make their living mostly from small businesses... with 11% rate of growth only in matter of months Iran is a great trade partner for small businesses in Europe.

this whole thing seems only easy for the US but harm and pain could be done to them too... pulling out oil for a short period therefore creating a race condition between a booming economy like China (or Japan) and US (or US allies) for acquiring oil is the most basic thing that Iran can do, no sweat!.. the loss of oil revenue then could be gained back once the period is over and Iran could sell its oil up to 2 fold…

 

But it isn't coming mainly from the US, it is coming from France, GB, and Germany, and 2 of those 3 nations did not support the US in the war v Iraq. There is of course no doubt that the US feels the same way, but lets all be honest about who is going after Iran and not put all the blame on the US.

 

meanwhile Iran is set to launch the first domestically built cargo ship in Persian gulf waters tomorrow.. the ship is called "Arak" and can carry more than 30,000 tons.. guess Iran is getting ready for sanctions

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/13/international/i164856S93.DTL

 

Like to know what book it is cuz there has been a wave of attack on Iranian/Persian culture and history within the last couple of years (it actually started right after the revolution but has greatly intensified after 911). I am talking about some gross changes in facts and events.

Anyway, what you questioned is a natural part of history, no empire stays in power forever, and you end up losing it for 2 main reasons: first- stretching and pushing too far and second - happens when you least expect it. With regard to Persia, there are some very unique phenomenon about Iran -- first, it has become a major world power 3 times in its history (don't recall any other major power to have had repeats yet) and the first Persian Empire under Achemanid dynasty introduced many new innovations,that it was the first empire to establish World Order (world government over 2500 yrs ago), the first to introduce the "Declaration of Human rights", the first to introduce multi-ethnic, multi-religion Order of Universal governance without "Regime change" at local level, without "social engineering"--- that's how you win "heart and minds".The other two Persian empires happened under the Sassanid Dynasty (although the Parthians could also be considered as an empire), and the last one started in early 16th century under the Safavid Dynasty.
Could Iran/Persia go for a four-peat????

 

thanx for the pic. Can you please verify what I have heard that Iran has built (and currently functional & floating) light weight, high speed, fully stealth subs with stealth missiles and torpidoes?

 

Iran is the most enduring empire the world has ever known. What made it so is the fact that it became the first more or less universalist empire in history. That made Iranians accustomed to seeing legitimacy of power (especially in their sphere) as belonging to them, quick in denying it to others. Hence, after every fall, Iran has arisen again. It will do so again.

The article below might seem as propaganda, and to some extent was probably intended as such, but larger historical trends clearly show in this direction. The only impediment right now is the US and its designs. Once that impediment is removed, the rest will fall naturally in place.

BTW, to me it is interesting that many Westernized Iranians implicitly even if often unconciously paying hommage to "Rome", want to challenge the nationalist credentials of this regime. There are elements in this regime which in the past were not nationalistic, and the regime's propaganda and actions at times irritated some of Iran's nationalist components. But today Iran is first and foremost a nationalist state. One that is learning to find the common threads in Iran's culture and political heritage under the rubric of Iranian shia Islam in a system that is ultimately flexible enough to bring together the divergent threads in Iran's cultural heritage. Since this is a more long term assessment, there will be many who won't see it this way, but non-politicized historians are already noticing that dynamic. Indeed, not long ago, I posted an article by a prominent historian on precisely this issue.

Anyway, here is the assessment or propaganda from the head of Iran's revolutionary guards. Either way, whether seen as propaganda or a genuine assessment, it tells the same story.

 

"Heaven, the next best thing after Iran."

 

Yes, the EU3 are suspicious of Iran's nuclear programme as well but let's not kid ourself about who is most serious about it and most ready to implement use of force, they publically said it in a way that no one else did. Plus, Germany, France and GB aren't so eager to impose sanctions as fast as the US is either.

The United States wanted them reported to the UNSC from day one, without even considering most evidence or allowing the IAEA proper time to complete its investigations.

 

Iran has built and commissioned two different types of submarines, only a few days ago commissioning the Nahang submarine after earlier unvieling the Ghadir subs. These subs can carry stealth torpedoes developed by Iran, and while the submarine itself is not "stealth", it makes very little noise and is not easy to find.

Unlike US submarines, the Nahang is built specifically for the shallow and narrow waters of the Persian Gulf.

BTW, you can scroll down to the March 11 reports in the "subreport" and see a video of the Nahang in operation. Here is an AFP report on the Nahang submarine recently unvieled by Iran.

 

Talk about sanctions against Iran has had some chilling effect on foreign investments and trade, but there are a lot of projects that are still being pursued. And new ones being started as well.

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=41340&NewsKind=Current Affairs

 

For the longest time, the US did a lot to try to reestablish relations and contacts with Iran, from the comic episode of bringing cakes and bibles to Tehran during the Reagan administration to more mature proddings by the Clinton administration. At the time, hardliners in Iran rebuffed those efforts.

While the US pressures and threats have had an effect in slowly changing Iran's attitude on the issue, sadly they have become not a means to the same ends but rather an end in themselves. In this process, the US is missing out on a golden opportunity. One that could provide the framework for a 'win-win' solution to much of the problems in the Middle East.

The minute the US stops listening to Aipac, Israel, and Iran's "exiles", the quicker will be the right solutions for Iran and the US both. And even, in the long term, for the dream of a viable predominately jewish [small caps] state in the region built upon more enduring principles and premises than the ones guiding the Zionist enterprise.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...4mar14,0,7793396.story?coll=la-home-headlines

 

LOL, that really happened?! Is there a link somewhere that tells the story?

 

There are too many stories about it for me to post any particular link. The whole episode, known as the "Iran contra affair", was the subject of Congressional hearings and reports, a presidential commission (Tower Commission) report, as well as many insider accounts and other books.

Basically, a policy of seeking a 'reapproachment' with Iran, in the process also seeking the release of US hostages in Lebanon, was submerged with attempts to fund the contras in Nicaragua. In this maze, the Reagan administration sent its national security advisor to Tehran without proper preplanning, giving him a cake in the shape of a key to symbolize efforts to open up the locked doors in Iran-US relations as well as a Bible signed by Reagan! After spending a few days haggling with second and third tier officials from Iran in a Tehran hotel, Bob McFarlane flew back to the US with his entourage. The whole episode was then made public by a Lebanese newspaper close to Iran's hardliners, who were angry with the "Rafsanjani" faction which was behind the episode in Iran.

Ironically, many of the same cast characters now known as neocons, as well as the Israeli government, were the moving force behind that ill timed and amateurishly developed and pursued policy. Fast forward the tape 20 years later, and these bunch is now (when a policy of reapproachment could pay dividends) is seeking a totally different policy

 

Yeah but he isn't asking for any stories, just facts from reputable sources which seem to elude you more often then not.

Oh as for enduring empires. One Nation. Japan. No one has ever successfully invaded Japan. Only the US has occupied Japan. They have been around quite a long time as well. China is also much more impressive as an empire. Hell while the rest of us were kicking around with bows and arrows, they were developing gunpowder.

 

McFarlane's trip was really bizzare. Although here a few months after the story broke out, he denied some of the Iranian accounts of his trip (e.g., that he came with a fake passport belonging to an Irish butler, wore uniforms of airline workers, carrying a cake and a bible), the part about the cake and bible were later confirmed by the US government. (Later McFarlane amended his denial by saying that he personally did not bring the cake and bible, with that task given to a member of his entourage).

Anyway, McFarlane's denial of some of the account given by Iran gives a glimpse into that rather comic episode! For confirmation of the story regarding the bible and cake, you can read the Tower Commission report among others.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE4DC1231F937A25752C1A960948260

 

Oh, it was about the Iran Contra affair. I thought Reagan just sent some bibles over there to ******** with the Ayatollah and piss him off.

 

What matters very much now is how the US is approaching this issue, the fact of the matter is they are not doing a very good job at trying their all to peacefully and diplomatically resolve this issue...they are merely adding fuel to the fire.

 

Well the US aren't directly talking to Iran and vice versa. You have Russia, and the EU3 talking with Iran. Perhaps the US and Iran should both stop with the immature rhetoric and sit down and actually talk to one another.

But then that would mean both sides would have to admit errors in how they have acted towards each other since 1979 and we know we can't have that.

 

The real “Axis of Evil” is USA, Israel and the Great Britain and of TheOrator was a country he would fit in that category too, lets not forget the US of A invented the “Axis of Evil”

 

guess that makes you a member of the axis of evil then.