The all encompassing Iran thread - Part 3

Re: The all encompasing Iran thread - Part 3

This is true. Just read any of the posts from IM.

 

Re: The all encompasing Iran thread - Part 3

Except for the US, there isn't a combined group of Nations in the ME that can do what you say. They have tried many times before and always failed. And the one country that made the remarks about wiping Israel off the map couldn't even win against Iraq after 8 years of fighting. Something the US Military did in weeks.

 

Re: The all encompasing Iran thread - Part 3

My remark was a "term of art" not a military tactic. It was like a play that someone else wrote and you just change the actors. Although, there is quite bit of liguistic art as well. Thanx, though!

 

Re: The all encompasing Iran thread - Part 3

I wanted to thank the actors in the comic production, and in particular the puppets who have made the Iran thread so thoroughly enjoyable;

First, the incredibly witty Ben for his thoughtful comment. If I didn't think of the politics forum clown, I might've actually considered one of your comments for more than 2 second before I burst into laughter.

The deluded hgold who prefers not to think in case the single grey cell might have delusions of multiplying and doubling his brain!! Then the second might actually see the other side of the story! Shock, shock, horror, horror.

scarecrow, the gimp to whatever Ben or hgold might say and is always there to evaluate the striking power of the American military. We know America has more nukes than there are people on Earth to wipe out and are happy to use them as well, but that's not something to be proud of!

Also, the countless other drones in the background (a necessity for every production) with their constant and never wearing "Iran invented..." jokes. That one will never get old, no matter how predictalbe (I know at least one of you was going to say something like "Iran invented comedy/theatre/cinema" or something similar. Surprise me!)

Just as a reminder to you all, many are laughing at you, not with you.

 

Re: The all encompasing Iran thread - Part 3

This coming from the Royal Jester. Where is your buddy IM at?

Surprising how you can never come up with either an informational post or any post that requires any degree of thought.

But then Iran invented jesters didn't they? LOL at you not with you.

 

Re: The all encompasing Iran thread - Part 3

I think they'll continue their pissing contest.

 

Well Iran has rejected the Russian Proposal, again. It seems like they are bound and determined to not negotiate at all and are hoping for a confrontation so they can show the world how powerful they are. Just not so sure if I were them that I would do that with Bush in office. With Bush's approval ratings so low, he may say WTF and go to war with them.

 

Listen to the wise man:

http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=39F8RV4OZ5RW939VKDG0MWA73I

 

Nah, Iran aren't stupid enough to go to war....their "defiance" if you will, is just them putting their foot down and showing that they are really behind their country and their peaceful nuclear program.

 

BUt I do feel that given the rhetoric coming from Iran, given how they pay for support and train terrorists, and given how they are unwilling to neg. at all concerning how their program should move forward shows that they are not going with just a peaceful program. Their intent is to get nukes. I think quite a few other Govt. realize this as well.

 

This general map of the Middle East roughly depicts as well the areas which, politically, will be most directly affected by any confrontation between Iran and the US. In those countries that have democratic institutions the political ripples will be felt one way. In others, those ripplies might be felt another way. But there will be ripples throughout this region.

The area just north of Iran constitutes the Caucasus (northwest) and Central Asia (northeast). The area south of Iran is the Persian Gulf region where much of the world's energy supplies pass through. To the west you have Iraq and Turkey and to the east Iran touches the borders of the Indian subcontinent through Afghanistan and Pakistan.

These areas in Iran's immediate neighborhood have been in long intimate contacts with Iran through millenia of shared history, much of it as belonging to various Iranian empires spanning many centuries and dynasties(Achaemenids, Parthians, Sassanids, Safavids, etc). Or otherwise being part of Iran's larger cultural zone (e.g., Turkey, Indian subcontinent). In this connection, let me note by way of example that it was only in the 19th century that Georgia and Armenia (Yerevan), along with Azerbaijan, became independent of Iran. Similarly, while Afghanistan ceceded from the rest of Iran in the 18th century, again it was only in the 19th century after the Anglo-Persian war of 1856-57 when Iran was finally forced to recognize Afghanistan's independence.

Outside of Iran's immediate neighborhood, you have Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine where Iran has alliances, correligionists and other political bases that give it leverage.

While Iran does not have any imperial ambitions, the long history I recited give Iran enormous "soft power" in many of these regions. A power that cannot be eroded by a few years of propaganda when it even survived and outlasted a couple of centuries of direct Russian/Soviet rule and propaganda in some places (Caucasus, Central Asia) or Western (British now US) rule and propaganda in other places (Iraq, Afghanistan/Indian subcontinent, southern Persian Gulf).

 

Iran didn't reject the Russian proposal, security council referral killed it before Iranians being able to reject it... Iran was satisfied with R & D plus Russian JV enrichment proposal but apparently Iran has to give up nuclear program completely... even if the government agrees to this how on earth are they going to explain this to ppl... it is true that most Americans live in complete denial when it comes to recent Iranian history (**) but Iranian ppl are all over it... they know how easy it is for foreigners to turn back on their promises (like the Germans did with the Bushehr reactor while they were fully paid)... so only a retarded person will give up enrichment fully which means giving up any chance for plan B incase Russians fail to deliver..


** for Americans Iran’s history consist of 3 events: 1. hostage crisis, 2. involvement in Beirut bombing, 3. Ahmadinejad’s comments regarding Israel and holocaust..

 

Note, this is the SECOND TIME that Iran has refused to accept a Russian compromise, the first coming PRIOR to referral to the UN SC. Please try to pay better attention to the FACTS.

Note #2. This is why noone takes kami seriously.

 

Russian proposal in its initial phase was never considered nor discussed… you can not “reject” a proposal you never considered... when Russia came up with the proposal Iran “refused” to consider it as they believed in getting their right in different ways, now this is a fact...

but I enjoy your obsession with me.. you are like mobile source that validates me around here.. keep up the good work!

 

I was reading a history book about Iran/Persia and understand how powerful it was in the history. But just wonder how it can fall apart for such great empire? Maybe it is normal when a great empire like Roman, Mongol, Ottoman, British will eventually fall apart? Maybe China is an exception when one empire fall, there is already one get right back with almost same size?

 

actually China was never an influential empire like Romans, Mongols, Ottoman or British seeking to expand rule over different ethnic groups and nations.. perhaps if they took the same approach they would have shared the same destiny with other big empires.

 

btw something that Shaster could elaborate more on, eurostat reviled that Iran's oil export to EU increased 44% in 2005 in comparison to 2004, considering Iran's new oil bourse that allows oil trades in currencies other than US dollar, things should get interesting between EU and US...

 

Look at what Jack Straw, the British foreign secretary has said on the likelihood of war. Although America continues to state that no option is off the table, war is not a valid option for the UK. Worst case scenario, should an invasion happen, the price of oil will skyrocket. This would be to supplies in Iran being disrupted, as well those in Iraq and the possibility of Iran causing more "economic pain" in Saudi Arabia and other neighbouring countries.

Also look at Simpson's analysis of Iran. Although too basic at times, it is not bad either. In fact, much better than a lot of other crap that I have come across. One of the interesting points is that sanctions will have no effect on Iran. If sanctions are put on oil, then oil prices will hit the West hard as well and China and Russia would push hard to prevent this from happening. If the oil isn't sanctioned, then Iran can do everything; it might just cost more. Given that oil prices have more than doubled, hence dramatically increasing Iran's budget, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Again, read Simpson's view on this and how sanctions might even benefit the country's economy and so on.

Both links can be found on the news.bbc.co.uk but I'm too lazy to put it here.

 

That makes sense. Maybe Chinese are pretty smart that you cannot stretch too far? Also Chinese believe it is not what you ethnic origin but rather a culture concept to be a Chinsese (kind of like be Jewish is more a religious/culture concept)?

 

A war is not good for anyone, even USA. We already see the previews of Iraq. Without cooperation from Iran and Syria, you will have no peace in Iraq. Then the whole Bush Admin's foreign policy core strategy is considered a failure. A change in policy by next Admin will cause huge damage on US interest--lost influence in strategic Mid East area and lost profits for Big Oil/Military-Industry.

Sanction will not work because EU will be hurt by a broad saction. They may choose to do sanction against few Iranian political/business leaders, but as long as those guys money not in Europe (in Shanghai and Hong Kong now), it is not much use anyway.

For negotiation, it is give and take. Then if USA decides to not give anything away, it will stay in stalemale like right now.

 

Iran, the nose-job capital of the world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiCLlHBvX44&search=iran