The 47% and the radicalization of the GOP

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    United States
    Okay I understand. I don't see a distinction between inequitable trade in this example and theft. Theft for me is a general catch all. Slavery is theft, child labor is theft, polution is theft, etc. I hope I am making sense.
     
  2. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But to me those are structural problems with capitalism, not human faults. It'd be like saying pork-barrel spending is theft, rather than the natural conclusion of giving discretionary spending to legislators. If you have capitalism, somewhere, somehow, you're going to have child labor - even here in the US, where we legislate against child labor. Calling them theft makes it seem like it's people that are the problem, not the system.
     
  3. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    And clearly socialist economic systems have child labor problems:

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well this is more about how socialism picks losers.

    BAZINGA
     
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  5. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    United States
    People created the system. Therefore any structural fault is a human fault.

    I mean I'm not disagreeing with you. Rather, calling those faults theft merely points them out as issues to be solved and/or regulated . Nothing more and nothing less.

    Truthfully, I think you are going out of your way to pick a fight with me on something that we agree on.
     
  6. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well then we agree.
     
  7. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    United States
    Believe it or not. It's about time, eh?
     
  8. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sometimes I need to be reminded to shut up.
     
  9. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    A similar article appeared on Alternet a few weeks ago. This went a bit further back into history.



    Conservative Southern Values Revived: How a Brutal Strain of American Aristocrats Have Come to Rule America


    http://www.alternet.org/story/15607...stocrats_have_come_to_rule_america?paging=off

    Some of the more interesting bits:





     
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  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Lee Wang goes to work at his Foxconn labor camp and a Bruce Lee (or Bruce Li) movie breaks out!

    HONG KONG (CNNMoney) -- A large-scale incident involving some 2,000 Foxconn Technology Group factory workers has forced the closure of one of the tech supplier's plants in China, the company confirmed Monday...

    ...The incident, which a worker at the scene described as a "riot," took place in Taiyuan, a city in central China. Foxconn employs 79,000 workers at the facility. Production at the plant has been halted, but Foxconn said in a second statement that the factory will resume activity on Tuesday.

    http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/24/technology/foxconn-workers-brawl/index.html?iid=HP_LN
     
  12. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    Lincoln can't really be held responsible for the failure of Reconstruction.
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a very interesting article and argument. I think the writer tries to prove too much, though. There's aLOT to nitpick. To give you a taste of where the conclusions get ahead of the data IMO

    Still, I think the article is definitely worth reading, if only so y'all can think about which parts of the argument you can refute, and how you would refute them.
     
  14. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
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    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
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    United States
    Why would you need to reconstruct an independent nation?
     
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  15. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    America tends to rebuild the countries it obliterates in war
     
  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    FYP.
     
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  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hells now riots are going to break up in Europe and the USA with all those people waiting in line for their Iphone 5.












    (Yes I know Ipad vs Iphone but the joke worked better with the Iphone).
     
  18. TheSlipperyOne

    TheSlipperyOne Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Denver
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Thanks for opening that can for Matt.
     
  19. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eventually, once they're done with rebuilding all the schools in Afghanistan and Iraq, they'll get on about renovating and rebuilding the Indian Schools that they've been neglecting for the past 50 years. I'm sure of it.
     
  20. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I read that China story with interest. Inconceivable to imagine that occurring in the States. Ironic that a "communist" government treats labor so badly. By no means surprising, mind you, but ironic.
     
  21. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I'm even more surprised they didn't summarily execute hundreds of "troublemakers" and replace them with some more faceless carbon blobs. China's quite good at that historically too.
     
  22. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We only did it well twice.
     
  23. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

    Nov 27, 2004
    1936 Catalonia
    Definitely. She tackles a lot for such a short article. But the main argument is fairly compelling.

    And as someone that's lived in Texas for the majority of his life, it has also helped explain one of the major head scratchers for me: why are there so few rich liberal whites down here compared to, well, everywhere else.
     
  24. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    See the thread about the man lynching a chair in his front yard...in "liberal" Austin of all places.
     
  25. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Revisiting this issue, I think both you and Matt seem to forget that international trade involves many actors and that inequalities can be created or ignored by many of those actors. From trade barriers and subsidized products to unregulated labor or mining, international trade usually leaves a lot of losers and creates tons of collateral damage not only in terms of money, but in more untangible ways like environmental damage and human exploitation.

    You might think that it is "fair trade" but when an American or European multinational (that in plenty of cases get subsidies from their home countries) goes to another land and strips mine or extract their resources not only not paying fair market values, but involving in questionable labor, environmental and legal practices, it is not...
     
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