The 2007/08 Pavon of the Match Thread

Macaluca, see what you've done? You've moved the park bench to the center of the pitch and are now serving beer instead of our usual wine? Shame how things have deteriorated around here.

Guti for supersub, eh? Maybe. Should've happened 2 years ago. By now he should be handing out towels in the locker room and playing in the early rounds of the Copa Del Rey. Why waste a position on someone you hope will make one brilliant pass over 90 minutes? I fail to understand the logic in that.

 

Sneijder
Guti

 

It wasn't me Major, I blame Horsey, she's always moving the furniture about to try and find the bottles she's hidden about the house.
And I would never neglect to serve the ol' vino.
I actually waited until Sunday to watch the game...Saturday night was set aside for a rugby match, a couple of bottles of red, a Monte Cristo cigar, some Wild Turkey, plenty of drunken conversation until the early hours.....and the mother of all hangovers on Sunday morning.

My point would be why waste the one player in the squad who can make that pass in a role that negates his ability to do so.
I know this is OT but there is some relevance to it....
Garry Johnson was being interviewed on the radio on Sunday morning. For those that don't know he is the Bristol City manager and he was being asked about fitting Lee Trundle into his team. Now Trundle is a supremely talented striker, with lovely control who is capable of doing the totally unexpected. He spent many years at Swansea and many people spoke of him being too good for the lower divisions, yet over the years not one big side was willing to take the chance on him...primarily it appears because of a lack of work-rate, commitment and maybe the lack of playing discipline on the pitch (By that I don't mean his behaviour, but more his desire to try something totally different when perhaps the situation called for a more conservative approach).
Now Johnson was being asked about getting the balance right between playing disciplined, organised football and allowing the players to try things...to be individuals and inventive on the pitch.
His reply was that the organisation was key to any teams success, he put the balance at 75% to 25%, but that you had to allow players to be individuals IN THE RIGHT AREAS.
He was then more specific and talked about how individual inventiveness was generally worthless in deeper areas because modern opposition organisation had the space and time to close it down and counter it. If you want to allow players to try the unexpected, try the risky killer pass, it has to be in the last third of the field and only in that area can it be effective.
Now that is more or less my point about Guti...you have to play him much further forward than he is being used at the moment.
Now not for one moment do I absolve Guti from all blame...he was terrible on saturday and has been for the last few games. Even in the advanced position I suggest he needs to do more.
He does need to be more self aware of the fact that he has not achieved half of what his talent deserved, that his career, for all it's success may ultimately be seen as a disappointment.
Perhaps more than anything, the way he carries himself on the pitch does not endear him to many ...and he is probably the most hated player in Spain, and it seems he can add this forum to that list .But (as you can see) I still like the guy and don't like to see him get all this stick. At times he does let himself and the team down but then to see him running alone to a stand full of Basques baying for his blood after he scored, and kissing the Madrid badge in front of them makes me kind of forgive him a lot...an empty gesture maybe, but one that still makes me smile.

 

1. Guti
2. Sneijder

Since Benitez subbed out Gerrard this week because he had too much passion, maybe we should swap Guti for Gerrard with him straight up?

 

Bah, to the bench with him.

Just like Laudrup has said in the past, the guy is "on" every 10 or so games. We don't have time or the patience for a guy who has done this for his entire 1st team career.

First we made excuses of how we brought in "galacticos" which "derailed" him when in truth before Zidane even came he was still the same inconsistent player and after that excuse we said that he probably doesn't have the confidence of the coach.

Well, now he has all the confidence and his starting place and he has done the same thing he always does..... fall short, way short.

I still don't understand the free pass some players get with regular members while others get stick regularly? Why not have some consistency with the judgment of players?

While Guti wasn't the worst player (Sneijder and Higuain were) he was very close behind. What pissed most here off was his don't give a fuck attitude he showed. I mean many of you ignored the FK he blasted to pluto which could of been our first score (game would of been tied). Guti acts like a complete asshole at times so why pardon him for it? Mourinho doesn't get pardons? Also C.R. didn't get any from you guys and he's 7 years younger than Guti.

But we should just be like, "oh.. that's just Guti". Wrong.

Did any of you see Calderon's expression after some of Guti's antics? We wonder why our big mouth president would say he's still a promise at age 30 (turns 31, Oct. 31st). That's why.

 

^ You are making a big deal out of that FK. He tried to score, the keeper was abit far from goal and there is nothing wrong with trying. He missed horribly and he laughed, most likely at himself.

Comparing his "attitude" to CR's diving dramas isn't the best example...

 

At the risk of repeating myself *guilty!* I'll say it again. Guti performs best when he feels he has something to prove. Bench him, bring him in as a sub, and he'll try his darndest to prove the coach wrong. Give him a starting position and he becomes complacent.

Like a kid. Unfortunately, it happens. Giving Guti a starting position doesn't seem to make him feel he should put forth an effort, but making him show it does.

 

Actually, mistake our players make is magnified so this one which was an obvious "who cares" moment shouldn't be ignored either.

How?

C.R. is young like me so at least we have that as a sort of excuse for immature actions. However Guti's drama's far out way just diving, winking and whining.

Guti is 30, about to be 31 in a couple days.

How long will everybody continue to formulate excuses to pardon him?

 

Everyone is a little guilty of this as everyone has favorites. Remember, every time you point that finger, there are three pointing back at you ... unless you kids point differently these days!!

 

Bah, you're just angry you point with a cane and not hands like we "kids" do.

 

I made a point of saying that I did not absolve Guti of all blame.
I made a point of mentioning areas he has to improve (and some doubts that he ever will)
I made a point of saying that I personally like Guti as a player hence this is a personal opinion.

However I congratulate you for being the only unbiased , consistent poster on this forum...the rest of us feel suitably ashamed for having an opinion that differs from yours.

 

No one is defending him but he shouldn't be flamed because he ruined some chances. He is a player, he will try different things that many don't expect.

CR practically cheats. He dives when he isn't even touched and gets a penalty or a FK for his team which i consider cheating.

Why are you even comparing him to Guti?

 

Guti 2 points

Sneijder 1 point

 

1. & 2. Salgado
3. Gago

 

1. Salgado
2. RvN

 

1. Salgado
2. Metzelder

 

Real Madrid CF v. Olympiakos

2pts Sneijder (another bad game)
1pt Gago

 

word!

 

Yes! Its pretty infuriating to see people have different opinion then your own. How dare they

Lets boycott this thread together

 

Ronaldo