Sorry, missed your edit while I was ranting away. I only settled in the area a year ago, so their past life in Bangkok was never an issue. Nonthaburi is a bit of a trek and really I've never had any connection with the city besides passing through it.
Here in Beijing, everyone supports Beijing Guoan, no matter which part of the city you are from. There are a couple of other clubs in Beijing, but you wouldn't ever realize it by walking around the city. Around 40,000 people show up for every Guoan game, most of them coming in from outer districts of the city. That's the kind of unification I'd like to see in Bangkok. The key is Guoan's centrally-located, easily-accessible stadium in the middle of the city's restaurant, shopping, and nightlife. Imagine Suphachalasai Stadium's location. Also the team's identity is critical. I don't think they'd get all of the same support if they were Chaoyang Guoan (district within Beijing where the stadium is). But it's true that Bangkok and Beijing are far different footballing cities. Beijing's subway infrastructure integrates the whole city well, while most parts of metro Bangkok are still not integrated into the BTS or MRT. So regularly traveling from one side of the city into the middle for a match is maybe not realistic for a lot of supporters. Expansion of the BTS will take decades probably. Also like you said, Bangkok is too important to the Thai football leagues, whereas the CSL is spread out enough that one big team in Beijing is enough. That's why I like to see the TPL spread out into the provinces and grow on fanbases there. Yes there will always be a handful of clubs in metro Bangkok competing for support, but what I want to see is one club break the parity. And to do that, a club probably needs some very heavy investment. Pulling in a big name signing would win a lot of new fans from the part of the public that doesn't currently follow TPL. Then take the big signings and represent Bangkok well in AFC Champions League, etc. Until that happens, I agree the next best thing is to have district-based teams. I'm tired of the company teams. TOT, TTM crap. Lad Phrao and Bang Khen and Bang Na can all have their own little clubs, but with limited district populations to draw from in a city where TPL support is already spread thin, how can they ever be more than just a few hundred guys banging some drums? This isn't the EPL where Everton, Tottenham, and Chelsea can build worldwide fanbases. And with only 18 teams (usually) in the TPL, there's not enough space for all of them, they'd be down in D2 Bangkok division. Personally, I'd rather make the longer trip into downtown Bangkok to cheer for my city against other cities in Thailand or other cities in Asia. It's an easy choice for you, with a local district team Muangthong nearby that is actually big and relevant and will probably always be competitive in TPL, but most people in metro Bangkok don't have that. Well, that was rant among rants. Thanks for getting me started on it haha
I think there's a fundamental difference in what we think club names are for. You seem to be of the opinion that they indicate where the club's fans live and exclude those that live elsewhere, while I think they have the much simpler purpose of just telling people exactly where the club is. As an example, for my first six months of following the TPL I had no idea I lived very close to TOT. I still wouldn't have known had they the name of the "Bangkok Telephones" or something. But were they called 'Lak Si' and I was flicking through the Bangkok Post's sports section and saw 'Lak Si v. Buriram tonight', I would have known a big game was going on near me. That's what you need. I mean, even if transport in Bangkok is becoming easier, that means nothing unless people know which of the half-a-dozen teams they can get to easier. Bangkok United themselves are a 10 minute walk from Victory Monument, our biggest transport hub, but no one knows that because their name is so stupidly vague they could be in a field in Minburi for all the casual Thai sports fan knows. But anyhoo, onto the actual football. I went to Muangthong and the aforementioned Bangkok United this weekend. The latter was forgettable and I think I already have, but Thong looked stronger than we have been for a while, particularly with Bothroyd finally pulling his finger out. The forward trio are the league's best. With Buriram's weird form, isn't it their title to lose? I can see it really depending on Dangda's replacement. That has to be Leesaw, right?
You're right, there must be a fundamental difference in what we think club names are for. I don't need the club name to tell me where the club plays, I can look that up online. Most Thais aren't too good with place names and maps anyway. But the club name is highly relevant to who I give my allegiance to. I cheer for the team that represents me, my neighborhood, my hometown, my city, or my country. Why else should I care about 11 sweaty guys kicking around a hunk of leather? The problem with Bangkok United isn't that no one knows where they play because the name doesn't tell them, it's that Bangkok United doesn't give most people a compelling reason to look it up. They don't have the star power or win resume that Muangthong and Bangkok Glass have, and they don't post advertisements for their home matches all over town like a lot of successful provincial clubs do. I mean, would you argue that Manchester United is too vague a name because it doesn't tell people exactly where in Manchester they need to go to find their pitch? Yeah with Buriram looking like they forgot how to stand on two feet, Muangthong should be able to come out top of the table. But my in Muangthong to actually accomplish anything is still unrestored from last season. Have you heard any rumors of Leesaw moving down the road to Nonthaburi? I haven't, but I'm usually last to hear about those sort of rumors.
Leesaw the star that went to his head. Really has knuckled down these last few seasons though. Leesaw was their before, will they really want him back? Would be a huge fee, I can't see BKK Glass letting him go.
That's fair enough and it's probably just a difference between America and the UK; naming a team in the city of Glendale 'Phoenix', while some UK teams go in the complete opposite direction and you have a team in a major city like Liverpool named after basically a housing estate of 8,000 people and, indeed, Arsenal (since leaving South London) have no geographical indicator whatsoever. Sufficed to say were I of your opinion I'd support neither Cardiff City or Muangthong. I have no problem with Manchester United because there are only two teams named 'Manchester' in a metropolis of 2.5m. That's fine. I have a problem with 'Bangkok United v. TOT, BEC Tero Sasana v. Air Force, Police United v. Bangkok Glass and Singhtarua v. Muangthong' amongst eight million. Besides the last one, that's just a branding mess to me. I know you say fans can just Google where all of those teams are, but it's pretty much the sign that your company has a bad marketing strategy when you need the customer to research you. Bangkok follows London in terms of demography within their respective countries and so I feel it would be best if the various football teams in this metro copied the London teams when it comes to branding, but I can see why you'd disagree and y'know, whatever, agree to disagree. Nope, no rumours I've heard. But really, what are the other options? I really wish Teerasil would give up this daft European dream; he only ever seems to have a foot in this country.
That's true, it could definitely be a difference in ideology between America and the UK. I also agree that it's a mess having so many different clubs in metro Bangkok under different names. It confuses new fans and dilutes Bangkok's club support. That's why I prefer to see metro Bangkok clubs get relegated and replaced with provincial clubs, especially if the Bangkok club has some weak company-based identity like TOT or TTM. Hopefully down the road a few years, we'll have a spread-out TPL with just a few teams in Bangkok and most teams located out in various other metro areas around the country. I don't think London clubs and Bangkok clubs are comparable though. London clubs like Arsenal have huge brand equity and have enjoyed strong fan support for many decades already and that fan support is often passed down in people's families. The London clubs don't need to try to attract more local support. The way they gather new support is to look internationally and try to build fanbases in Asia, Africa, etc. And fans that are that far away have no reason to care much which city/district the club is named after or if it's named after one at all. However, the Bangkok clubs need to find their new support locally. They don't have any other choice to look outside Bangkok right now. And one way to build local support is to build a local identity. But this is kind of how the TPL goes. One step forward, one step back, then one step sideways down some new road. And it's the same for Teerasil, I think he'll certainly take some long winding detour back to the TPL through a failed European attempt with this. Too bad, there are so many Thai clubs he could make a huge difference for.
Yes, now. Chelsea are now so well known that Abramovich could basically just mash his palm against a keyboard, decide that Chelsea will from now on be called "Jfjdshkjg" and everyone in Britain would still know who they are and which part of London they come from. But Chelsea weren't always that popular. When they were formed in 1905, they took the name 'Chelsea' - as opposed to 'London Blues' or something - because they were in the exact same position Bangkok teams find themselves now: they came from a city that made up a quarter of their country's entire population, with a plethora of rivals within that city. They picked 'Chelsea' in 1905 for the same reason TOT should be called 'Lak Si' now; to make it as easy as possible for those within that massive city to know which of these many, many teams should be their one. Same reason the nineteenth century gave us Woolwich Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur, Crystal Palace, Charlton Athletic and Millwall. Had they been instead called London Gunners, London Spurs, London Palaces, London Borings and London Hooligans, no Victorian would have had any idea what was going on. It's different in America; you're "awarded" teams and the leagues limit competition, so there was never any reason for there ever to a "Bronx Yankees". You don't need to mention that you're from the Bronx because there will never be a half-a-dozen teams claiming other parts of your city. Then, yeah, call yourself 'New York'. But that being said, if they had a quarter of Major League Baseball teams within their city, I suspect Bronx would be the name they'd have taken.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I don't want there to be more than half-a-dozen teams in metro Bangkok. If I were Worawi, including having all his power and corruption, I would see to it that every metro Bangkok club besides 3 or 4 of them that are serious about investment get relegated down to D2 and obscurely enjoy their days in D2 Bangkok Region forever more. Then we can talk about dividing up metro Bangkok geographically between the 3 or 4. It will take a heck of a long time to reach that point, probably. But the trend over the last several years since the integration of TPL with the provincial leagues has been metro Bangkok sides down, provincial sides up.
The AFC and their licensing requirements effectively did what your asking. FAT followed suit and all clubs had to become 'professional' back in 2008/09. Bangkok Bank and Krung Thai Bank disappeared from this. Army rebranded, Police rebranded, TOT, Air Force showed their commitment to the league and if anything deserve to be their. What Thai football doesn't need is Chonburi practically running the Eastern Seaboard controlling Pattaya and Sriracha and a team called Seeker!! Failed collapse with Futera Seeker which effectively means this side will disappear at some point - they are taking a the place of a side from the Khor Royal Cup who want to be in the RL system!
Yes, that requirement in 08/09 was a great thing for Thai club football. But I don't think Army, Police, TOT, Air Force really had commitment to the league, their parent organizations just had desire to continue their football club marketing schemes. And these days they can't compete, they can only tread water. They don't invest in trying to build substantial long term fanbases. I will wait for the free market to take care of them and weed them out, making room for clubs with bigger investment and bigger desires. Chonburi's management is all kinds of dodgy. "Godfather" type dodgy. Does Seeker still do that thing where they let the fans manage the club by voting online on which players to start, etc.?
I don't see the point in clubs such as TOT, Police etc operating, I don't know what their marketing schemes are! I'm waiting for the day that Saraburi make the TPL, just what happens with Osotspa Saraburi then? Would they move on to another province? Merge both clubs? As for Seeker, no, Futera pulled out as far as I understand. But I'm not sure the fans managed the club anyway. I signed up, you didn't need to pay, I'd ask them questions, never get a response, to the point I'd chose the worse team i possibly could, keeper up front, etc. Never really liked the idea. Was doomed from day one. A Kiwi guy I know knew the guys running the Futera Seeker club and generally came across as saying they had 'dodgy' backgrounds, in for the quick book. But I never had them asking me for money, so what was in it for them? TV revenue? I expect Seeker will disappear without a trace one day. As for lower league clubs, I have a soft spot for Bangkok Christian College, or Bcc Tero! I've asked them questions, they've been frank and answered me. They wanted to, before BCC came along to invest in youth, give the youth a chance, they did and they struggled but the committee running them wanted to do this over than winning. They are in the place they want to be, but I wonder why no youth league is running properly? BCC in their stance shouldn't be playing in a senior league surely? Another club, Thong Lor, don't play RL, they are taking it steady, building themselves up, I'd like to see them play instead of a Seeker club. They want to represent Thong Lor, they also realise that it's too small to be big fish. This is the problem with Bangkok, Bangkok United is a name to big, but if they were just Minburi, they would be too small! But what is a name anyway? The day I pick up a pro Bangkok paper and actually see a club promoting themselves will make me want to support them, but none ever do. They expect YOU to do the leg work.
It really all depends which clubs get owners who are willing to make serious investments in building their clubs and fanbases. Realistically, a couple seem to be givens: Muangthong, for you Nonthaburi crowd. Bangkok Glass, for the Pathum Thani crowd. Then I'd like either Bangkok United or Bangkok FC, but with a new stadium and a lot more money and charisma. And if a 4th team is willing to invest what it takes to be competitive, then great. The Chula grad in me wishes Chamchuri United or BBCU would get serious, but that will never happen.
True! I think their only purpose is so that the chairmen of those organizations can tell other hi-so's at their hi-so parties that they own a professional football club. Good question. I don't think Osotspa care much about their football club, but Osotspa Saraburi is currently a slightly bigger draw in the province than Saraburi FC, so maybe they'd just hold their ground and we'd have 2 Saraburi clubs. I remember Bangkok United put up a billboard on Sukhumvit near Asok once. But that was at least 2 years ago and I haven't seen anything else since. I haven't seen anything from any other club either. But I like these YouTube channel promotions that a lot of clubs have going. A lot of clubs have come out with their own pop or rock songs for the club also.
Buriram failed to win in Pohang today. 0-0 FT. So they're out of ACL. No surprise, considering how their year is going.
Where the devil are BBCU based? Is it Army United's ground or that li'l 'un in Nonthaburi? Or a bit of both?
Last year was in Army Stadium, this year it's the Nonthaburi Municipal Stadium. The Nonthaburi home is a better fit for them, really. But they confuse potential fans when they keep moving every year.
As I feared, Buriram refused to release Javier Patino to the Philippine national team for the Challenge Cup, despite the tournament being considered an Asian Cup qualifier, because of ongoing club schedules. In contrast, many of the European based players were released under similar circumstances. So much for ASEAN solidarity.
Being an Asian Cup qualifier doesn't really mean much especially if it's not part of the FIFA calendar. The first round qualifiers for the AFCON take place this month but clubs aren't obliged to release players because it's not part of the FIFA calendar. So it's not surprise Patino didn't get released.
I kind of think all clubs should honor national team duties. Clubs sign them knowing this is going to happen every so often. I know Buriram is in a bit of a hole right now, but I think they should make it Javier Patino's decision.
Thanks Thai although Patino is a key member of their team, and with the club struggling, Buriram probably didn't want to let him go. The Philippines should have enough depth to compensate for his loss.
The Thai Women's National Team has qualified for the 2015 Women's World Cup! This is the first time they've qualified and it is a great achievement, no matter how the tournament itself goes. They beat Vietnam 2-1 in Ho Chi Minh City to secure 5th place in the Women's Asian Cup, and the final AFC world cup slot.
For me, I've just been busy with real life. I've been meaning to post a TPL update for a while. Buriram and Suphanburi have really salvaged their seasons and and shot up the table. Here's the standings update: TPL Standings (we have a tight race going on for first place!) RankTeamPld.w.d.l.Diff.Pts. as of: 14 June 2014 at the end of season head-to-head counts over goal difference key: (C) = champion; (PR) = promoted 1Muang Thong United181062+1836 2BEC Tero Sasana18990+1836 3Buriram United (C)18963+1733 4Suphanburi FC18945+1031 5Chonburi FC18873+831 6 Chiang Rai United18855+729 7 Singhtarua FC (PR)18846-428 8 Army United18765+327 9 Ratchaburi FC18684+626 10 Bangkok Glass FC18738+324 11 TOT SC18585-123 12 Police United18729-323 13 FC18576+222 14 Chainat FC17557-420 15 Bangkok United18549-1119 16 Songkhla United18549-1819 17 Sisaket FC18459-1017 18 PTT Rayong (PR)17287-714 19 (PR)183510-1614 20 Samut Songkhram FC183213-1811 I think Buriram has hit their rhythm and they are very hard to stop now. They might pull away in the the second half of the season, but I hope the title race remains close and exciting. In D1 Korat is already pulling away, and doing so in front of crowds that always push 20,000 and have surpassed it. I'm excited to have them in the TPL. RankTeamPld.w.d.l.Diff.Pts. as of: 14 June 2014 at the end of season head-to-head counts over goal difference key: (R) = relegated; (PR) = promoted 1 Nakhon Ratchasima FC161141+2137 2 Bangkok FC16952+1132 3 Navy FC16862+830 4 Ang Thong FC (PR)16763+1227 5 Saraburi FC16673+625 6 Phuket FC16745+225 7 TTM-Customs16673-125 8 Chiang Mai FC (PR)16655+523 9 BBCU FC16655-123 10 Phitsanulok FC (PR)16574-522 11 Ayutthaya FC16628020 12 Krabi FC16628-220 13 Pattaya United (R)16619-1119 14 Trat FC16538+218 15 Roi Et United (PR)16538+118 16 16394-118 17 Khon Kaen FC161410-197 18 Sri Racha FC160214-272 Edit: well that formatting turned out to be a disaster. Oh well. Sorry guys.