TDIF: MLS, Kraft Planning To Sell/Relocate Revolution after 2013?

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by VTSoccerFan, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. frankieg73

    frankieg73 Member

    New England Revolution
    Portugal
    Apr 8, 2001
    St. Petersburg, FL (not my choice)
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    I half-seriously wonder if this is some kind of veiled threat to fans: buy season tickets and give us a reason to stay or lose your team.

    Or, a threat to the community, that is totally laughable: Help us build a new stadium or we're outta here and you'll be sorry because all of that economic activity would leave the area.
     
  2. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reading the original e-mail on Bent Musket, as well as the follow-ups shoots the whole thing down. The guy doesn't work for the Revs, but he's worried about his job if they move. He isn't a soccer fan, but he seems to know a few things only reasonably knowledgeable fans would. He mentions that they "almost folded after Miami and Tampa did in the late '90s" but that was in 2002, after the new, state-of-the-art stadium opened.

    Anyway, I can see MLS taking on only one new team in the next few years to make 20. If, for whatever reason, another city comes along (Baltimore?) or any other fairly large market like Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, St. Louis, Minnesota, etc. with a deep pocketed owner and the local political support to build an appropriate stadium before NY gets their act together, then we might have good reason to worry.

    Then again, the Revs "hope" to "have an announcement" at "some time" in the "near future," so we're good to go!
     
  3. Fire Mike Burns

    Aug 16, 2012
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    The Drug Is Football responded to New England Soccer Today's request for comment on the Fborostaff email story, story also includes comment from the Revolution's Director of Communications Lizz Summers http://nesoccertoday.com/?p=14858
     
  4. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, having heard the additional information about the email's circumstances from additional media sources, plus the unqualified denials from the FO, I'm now inclined to believe the email's a hoax or a paranoid fantasy - either way, no cause for alarm.

    But I think TDIF handled it the right way - given the way the FO has been mishandling this season both on and off the field, the email had enough credence to merit publication. And to TDIF's credit, they gave proper transparency and qualification to how and why they published. TDIF handled it with appropriate journalistic aplomb, IMO.
     
  5. jrandinho

    jrandinho Member

    Sep 17, 2000
    MASS
    What would happen if there's a move?
    New owner: Alright, everybody who's coming with us take a step forward. Not so fast, Mike.
     
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  6. RevvedUp10

    RevvedUp10 Member+

    Aug 10, 2010
    Watertown, Ma
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was crazy all along to believe that Bob Kraft was willing to give up the 10K in foot traffic as his mall.

    That is about 9.5K more than he would have on the usual Saturday nights.
     
  7. revsrock

    revsrock Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    Boston Ma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think a lot of people know how Malls work. Kraft is getting his money from these places no matter what their individual sales are. The pay rent base on the sq footage. And I tell you right now he is making a boat load of money. That is not including any additional charges he gets for maintenance contracts.

    And when it comes to sales percentage it is usually 15% over and above you rent.

    And when it comes to sales
    I will use Bass Pro shop for example
    rent is say 25,000
    $250,000 a month.

    So Kraft would 15% of sales of 166,666(25000/.15)
    So at 250,000 he would get 15% of 84,000. So around 12,000 additional for doing nothing

    So anyone who says he is hurting at the Man Mall is garbage. He is doing fine.
     
  8. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well he has a massive loan to pay off. If the stores don't generate much foot traffic, that drives down rent.

    In general, I agree. The Revs impact on the Man Mall is negligible. The reason he keeps the Revs is because its a relatively stable investment and it fills the stadium in the spring-summer.
     
  9. revsrock

    revsrock Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    Boston Ma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Won't drive down rent that is locked in, it will just drive down his extra profit.
     
  10. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

    Feb 16, 2000
    Woburn, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair point. Would have been better served to use the NHL and NBA as examples.

    Disagree. The two situations aren't remotely analogous. The Quakes were paying a fortune to lease Spartan Stadium. The league allowed them to move from the #6 TV market to the #10 TV market on favorable terms.

    The Revs a more or less a break even proposition. The stadium is far from ideal, but it's not a huge problem, either.
     
  11. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

    Feb 16, 2000
    Woburn, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without even getting into whether the rumor is true or not, I'd suggest that there isn't a serious journalist in the country that would go with such a thinly-sourced rumor as this.

    It's a single-source anonymous e-mail that's gotten no independent confirmation. It's one thing if you know the source personally, or if this particular source has a history of being right. There's no indication that this is the case. They admit to not asking the team for a comment.

    I mean, if you start off your story with, "I don't know if this is true or not, but we checked and no one told us it wasn't true" -- that's NOT journalism.
     
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  12. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It won't drive down current rates, but it might affect rent 5-10 years in the future.
     
  13. NHFootyFan

    NHFootyFan Member

    May 28, 2007
    Outside Concord NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I agree that no journalist would go with this as the basis for asserting what it alleges as fact.

    However, to be fair, TDIF were careful not to do that:


    In other words, what made this a story they ran with is that what should be a quickly-denied preposterous rumor was not, in fact, quickly denied. This is in turn calls in to question just how preposterous the allegations actually are, and I think TDIF did a decent job putting appropriate caveats on the story.

    Of course, none of this speaks to the basic truth of the story, about which we don't know - and which has now been officially denied by Billelo.
     
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  14. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    The best rumors are outrageous while still being just within the bounds of possibility. I'm going on the assumption that this was all a hoax, but props to the evil genius who concocted it.

    The best part is how the author exploits the void in the public's understanding of Bob Kraft's character. The idea that he is too apathetic to acquire the knowledge to make real changes, but too proud to accept the linkage of his name and a failed product, seems so believable to a frustrated Revs fan. The genius is that no amount of posturing on the part of the FO will convince people otherwise. The only way to really kill this off is the one thing that will never happen - the public involvement of BK himself.
     
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  15. Chowda

    Chowda Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Since Evan got the email and many who cover the team did not, I can confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt the mole is indeed Big Frank.

    Now please except my application to Detective University.
     
  16. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's not a serious journalist in the country who'd accept it as true on its face, sure. But there are plenty of serious journalists, especially sports journalists, who'd report an at least semi-believable rumor with the caveat that it's a rumor. Having no independent confirmation just means that it's a rumor, not that it's unreportable. And that's what TDIF did: they presented a rumor as a rumor, noting that they were unable to confirm it and why they decided to go ahead and publish it.

    Their explanation, incidentally, leads me to think that you may have misread the original article. They didn't say "we checked and no one told us it wasn't true." They also didn't "admit to not asking the team for a comment." They said:

    That's a big difference. When supposedly knowledgeable sources hem and haw about a rumor, that jacks up the newsworthiness, because the sources should be able to shoot it down (or confirm it) ASAP. And again, TDIF explained all this transparently.

    No, this was a solid journalistic exercise. It wasn't sensationalized, it wasn't presented by TDIF as an attack on the Krafts (though the original emailer likely hoped it would be). It was presented as a rumor with a clear explanation of the efforts TDIF had gone through to confirm/deny the story, and the reasons why TDIF decided to publish it despite the uncertainty. It's definitely journalism.
     
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  17. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. Another blog is patting themselves on the back about not posting this, and while I have nothing to do with the TDIF, I can still sit there as a supporter and say ... I'd rather be allowed to choose whether or not I believe this than "we're too good for this story." Thanks to TDIF for actually letting fans at least have the ability to choose.
    Yes, because a person that works for the Revs, who flat out said she finds soccer boring, is someone I'm going to pay attention to. And no, I wasn't the only Revs fan in Denver that heard her make the comment.
     
  18. shanary

    shanary Member

    Aug 18, 2008
    BOSTON
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This

    And this.


    And that is all I have to say about this for now. We will be speaking more on this later on but I'd like to let the discussion develop a bit before we say more.
     
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  19. revsrock

    revsrock Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    Boston Ma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My favorite thing is people take the email with a grain of salt, but take the Revs world being the gospel.
     
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  20. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shhh ... they've been around since like '02. They're obviously much better fans than the rest of us because the team's never missed the playoffs while they were season ticket holders. Oh ... wait....
     
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  21. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

    Feb 16, 2000
    Woburn, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree to disagree. I know a fair number of journalists, and my guess is none of them would pass along an anonymous rumor from an unproven source that no one would be willing to discuss, let alone confirm.

    The standard is so low here that journalists could pass along any anonymous e-mail and wash their hands of it by simply stating, "Hey, I told you it was just a rumor."

    Who did they check this with? I know they said "multiple well-placed sources within the US Soccer community", but what the hell does that mean? Journalists? Fans in Baltimore? Sunil Gulati?

    Seriously, based on your standard, what wouldn't qualify? If Kyle McCarthy put on Goal.com that there was a rumor that the reason the Revs traded Shalrie Joseph was because he was caught having sex with a farm animal in the Revolution locker room before a game, could he defend it by saying, "A guy sent me an an anonymous e-mail, so I checked it out and like three different people told me they didn't want to talk about it - which was weird, so I went ahead and published it."

    The part about not checking with the team came from their response to the NESoccerToday.com article:

    We did not contact the Revolution for comment, some may balk at that but would anyone honestly expect them to admit to something this controversial if it were true?

    ...which is ridiculous if you want the report taken seriously at all. Even if you know what they're going to say before you ask, you still have to ask the question and put it on the record.
    So, it's journalism based on the idea that an anonymous source refuses to discuss a rumor put forth by an separate anonymous source? Transparency or no, this is not journalism. It's rumor-mongering. Which is fine for a site like TDIF. Just don't tell me it passes some sort of journalistic sniff test.

    Listen, I really like TDIF. And I very much like Evan Whitney, who I know contributed to this story. In fact, Evan's tipped me off on stories in the past when I used to write for RevsNet. But based on the facts that are publicly available this doesn't even rise to the level of gossip used by guys like Steven A. Smith or the late, great Will McDonough.
     
  22. wolfp10

    wolfp10 Member

    Sep 25, 2005
    For their sake, I hope Evan, Brian, and TDIF have at least a name to go with the anonymous poster.

    If not, I hope they have good liability insurance coverage on their homes.
     
  23. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

    Feb 16, 2000
    Woburn, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, now that I've read the whole e-mail, it's even more ridiculous.

    1. The e-mailer says he/she don't work for the Revs, but later on claims that he/she is worried about his/her job.

    2. The e-mailer says he/she is not a soccer fan. However, the e-mailer knows enough about the game to state that the team almost went under in the 1990s (before he/she started working for Kraft?), that no more USMNT matches are coming to Foxboro, the kinds of crowds that AC Milan was drawing at other venues, that league bosses have spoken about not putting Foxboro on national TV, the terms of the deal the Krafts are looking for to build a SSS, that the Revs have dumped salary recently, the situation with the DC United stadium search, and DC United's feelings on having a local rival.

    3. The e-mailer says he/she has been working for the Krafts for more than five years, and while they're not a soccer fan, they might be if the Revs were better. Five years ago, the Revs were pretty good. Furthermore, he/she states:

    Listen, either you were around to "see" what things were like when Miami and Tampa were contracted, or you started working for the Revs five years ago. One or the other. These are mutually exclusive statements. If you were around in 2001, then you'd say you were around for more than 10 years.

    4. The e-mailer complains that Kraft is upset with the team's poor performance and that his staff doesn't know how to fix it... but then says they've been reduced to last-minute doubleheaders and boxing matches? How does that fix poor performance?

    5. The e-mailer says that "key people within the organization" are blabbing about Kraft being at a crossroads. But the e-mailer then asks fans to do the heavy lifting in terms of finding out what's going on? Why doesn't he/she just go ask one of those "key people" that can't keep their mouths shut? And how would this apparently be an open secret in KSG without leaking to either the print or electronic media?
     
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  24. burud111

    burud111 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    Connecticut
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To chime in:
    TDIF stands by the source and had conversations before AND after posting and still stands with the source. The Revs FO categorically denies the claims.
    Either TDIF has been burned by a normally reliable source, TDIF mistakenly aligned with a ludicrous source, or the Revs are lying/hiding something.
    Unless I missed something.
     
  25. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If three different people refused to comment on Shalrie being caught having sex with a farm animal - not three different people saying "That's effing absurd," but actually saying "no comment" - you bet he could defend it by saying that. Because a triple no-comment on something like that would be bizarre, and should make any journalists' antennae start to wiggle.

    Fair enough, that is a flaw. They should have asked, particularly because even if the FO denies it, the way they deny it can be telling.

    I think our disagreement comes down to different priorities of journalism (which, I should probably mention for the aforementioned transparency, is my current professional field). I'd guess that you consider journalism's most important feature to be its filtering function - getting the unlikely-to-be-true out of the discussion early on. Personally, I'm less worried about filtering and more about transparency, which I'd argue is a core journalistic value. I don't worry if untruth gets through, so long as I'm given enough information to evaluate its truth. I'm happy to make the final assessment myself.
     

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