I have written that on the previous page, but that's quite irrelevant. We have a formations thread if we want to discuss formations, this is the tactics thread. I was just interested in Anon's little remark about the 4-2-3-1 accomodating "all the right players" compared to the 4-3-3. I wouldn't define Marcelo as one of those "right players" BTW.
I think he was talking about all the players in a natrual position, no like when we had Sneijder and Higuain on the wings. Lass and Xabi in midfield, Ronaldo and Marcelo are both wide players, Kaka Central, behind the striker with Higuain up front. Every playing in a position they are more than comfortable with.
I like the current formation the way it is, I don't think a 4-3-3 is ideal as it often leaves your midfield exposed and requires you to play on the counter (unless your Barcelona). It's clear from the current formation that the front 4 players switch positions, specifically Benzema and Higuain. I assume Marcelo will be dropped once Ronaldo is back?
We will then have 2 strikers and two very direct AMs. They wont have enough space and wont track back. Marcelo at least can help out a bit in defense and provide width when needed.
I am watching the Milan game for the third time now (2nd leg) and i find no words to describe how bad our corner kicks are. Alonso is a good player he needs time to gel etc but i don't think you need time to adapt kicking a fotball. He always seems to kick them in a very soft way. Hi's balls also go very high which i don't like as a soft & high ball is very hard to hit good with your head. If he would cross a little more harder then a slight head-touch would be enough for a good shot on the goal, but this way i just don't see it going in.
If you watched Voronin take corners for Liverpool yesterday, you will thank our lucky stars we have someone like Xabi who can fail so gracefully at delivering corners
Granero started out taking some very good corners. Mostly in the pre season though. He's been shit recently. Xabi hasn't been good since he arrived. We are a mess on set pieces, be it defending them or trying to score off them. This is one area that can worked on and rectified quite quickly. I wonder why that hasn't happened.
a 4-2-3-1 would suit us perfect i think...benzema is becoming more an more frustrating the way he abandons his position and drifts out wide next to kaka and marcelo...ramos has improved quite well in recent games been better defensively an going forward his crosses seem more accurate me and a mate were talkin about marcelo who has been playing a bit beter at leftback this season...he is only 21 and insists he is a natural left back and i am willing to give him time i would like to see this formation --------------------------------------------Casillas---------------------------------------- ---------------Ramos-----------Pepe------------Albiol-------------Marcelo---------- -----------------------------Lass--------------------------Xabi--------------------- -----------Higuian-----------------------Kaka---------------Ronaldo------------- -----------------------------------Benzema------------------
I was wondering if Pellegrini is still "thinking small" and by small i mean he still thinks the same way as if he was coaching a small team not a team as big as RM. I think that very often in the last games, after we score, we retreat somehow and thus make it easier for the opposite team to attack us. With Milan we scored first (both games) and then we kinda stopped attacking. Same thing happened vs Atleti imo. There's no way those patheticos could have scored two on us if we would've controlled the game and attacked a little bit more, even with 10 players.
You can't judge him or the team's intentions from the Atletico game (even though in retrospect his bringing on Raul might have been a mistake, although he wasn't to know at the time). We were a man down and a goal (or three) ahead, I would expect all hands at the pump instead of trying to get another goal. I will have to watch the Milan game again, but I doubt he told the team to sit back. Sometimes, even the most well-drilled team will go through moments in a game when they are either forced back or subconsciously fall back to protect a lead. He has said before that he wants to gain possession and control the game that way, instead of just defending and countering, but he has to use more direct tactics at the moment due to the make-up of the squad. http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11835_5582508,00.html I don't know what the possession stats are, and i'll try and look it up later, but IMO we need to be having around 60 percent if our intent is to control the game by keeping the ball.
So what do you guys think of the Lass - Marcelo substitution last night? The fans were pretty pissed off at Pellegrini. My spanish is weak and i haven't read a lot of news today but i think Pellegrini said that Lass wasn't going to score 4 goals. So first he "apparently forgot" that Ramos is available for this game, then played Lass as a RB before substituting him for Marcelo. Pretty messed up if you ask me but never mind that, lets talk tactics. I think that we miss Lass every time that he doesn't play in the midfield. He wasn't bad as a RB but he should have stayed as a midfielder, i think we could have sacrificed one defender last night instead of subbing Lass.
Attacked a bit more? I thought we were way too comfortable against Athletico. We were 3-0 up and playing like we were the team that needed the goal. Both their goals came from us being caught out of position like you would be if you were going for a win.
I know we're best at counter-attacking football, but I kind of want to try out a possession-oriented playstyle in which we hold onto the ball 70% of the time, and connect maybe like 10-15 passes comfortably before driving to the goal. Then again, we're Real, and we're desperate for goals in an almost cavalier way, soo....
We don't have the type of players to hold the ball 70%. We are a 50-55% possession team with a wicked punch. Our team is more suited for quick transitions and counterattacks.
In the past, yes, but I figured the players we have this season may change that. I don't think Xabi Alonso is any downgrade from Xavi Hernandez, and I don't think Iniesta/Busquets is much better than any of our players. I will try this out on FIFA with a 3 CM, 1 DM configuration and return with my findings.
Another article from Jonathan Wilson talkin bout how symmetry in formations is over-rated. I recall having this convo with someone (Youngstars87, I think) about our own team, and it is a frequent bone of contention up in here. I am not calling anybody out, but I would be interested in thoughts on this. The article is called "The Question: Do formations have to be symmetrical?". It goes into the history of tactical formations, and discusses selected tactical variations from the start of the game up until England's recent WC Qualifying campaign. It is focussed on drawing lessons from Capellos experiment with Gerrard "on the left", but similar arguments can be applied to our use of the front four. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/dec/01/england-football-tactics-fabio-capello
Who's calling for symmetry? I was calling for balance because we were overloading a side with players and didn't have any space to move. The same thing players like Benzema complained a lot about. A way to counter overloading one side with too many players is to have another attacking option on the other side, which would help in create space. That has nothing to do with "symmetry".
Yes like our brilliant asymmetrical 4-2-2-2 Xabi Lass --------------------------RonaldoBenzemaKaka Higuain----- Can't wait till we take out Higuain and squeeze Ribery in there...
Are you sure about that Libertao? I see more of this: ---------------------Lass--------------------- ----------------------------------------------- ---------------------Xabi--------------------- ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------Raul------------ --Sergio Ramos-----Kaka-Marcelo-CR-- ---------Higuain-----------------------------
What's interesting from the Barca game is that Benzema goes more to the right when attacking (right 41%, centre 24%, left 35%). So does Raul (right 40%, centre 40%, left 20%). I always saw both as being better suited to the central and central-left channels myself. Higuain on the other hand doesn't go to the right as much as either of them (his stats against Barca for instance were right 29% centre 35% left 35%). And he isn't favoured by Pellegrini as much as either of the other two, when you factor in his scoring rates. Coincidence? Or is he too direct and not doing what is asked of him?
I lol'ed when I saw the Sergio Ramos, so true! @Umar: Of course I'm exaggerating, but you also have to take one game's statistics with a grain of salt. Also when do those statistics apply -- do they differentiate between defending, off the ball movement and dribbling? Is there a chalkboard for the game somewhere?