Suspending a match for lightning/thunder

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Dr. Gamera, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Doug the Ref

    Doug the Ref Member

    Dec 6, 2005
    St. Louis
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of our referees found an app for local lighting strikes. "CoachSmart" through Vanderbuilt University. Measures temperature and wind chill, and lightning strikes within 6 miles, 12 miles and 30 miles. Has a map for plotting actual strikes and a timer to measure for the all clear. Have only played with it. Took it to the field but weather cleared up and did not have an issue.
     
  2. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    The Weatherbug Android app has a lightning alert feature. I have no idea how precise or accurate it is, but in the short time I've had it, it has in fact alerted me to lightning the one time when I know there were thunderstorms somewhere in the larger general area. (And it's a nice weather app generally, FWIW.)
     
  3. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is never a good idea to rely on a cell phone app, no matter how good, to decide it is safe to get back on a field. Maybe to leave.
     
  4. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Cell phone timers aren't reliable enough in the 30-minute range? ;)
     
  5. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well played sir. I was referring to the apps that "detect" lightning however. :D
     
  6. SA14mars

    SA14mars Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have two apps for my iPhone: BoltMeter and Lightning Finder. I also highly highly recommend RadarScope for viewing radar. A bit pricey but gives Level II radar data.
     
  7. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    My understanding of the coachsmart app is that it pulls data from the nearest weather station. That could be a local airport several miles away. It does not use anything in the phone itself to do any detecting. You simply get info from the nearest place based upon your phone's location services feature.
    So how helpful this app is varies with how close you are to a weather station.
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Most of the Apps tie into one of the lightning detection networks across the country and the world.
    USPLN and NLDN are two I can think of.

    These are generally pay for use networks, so the app won't be free.

    But they do offer very accurate tracking and don't really have blind spots. USPLN, for example, has about 100 detectors across the country and each sensor can detect for hundreds of miles. Accuracy is about 250 feet by triangulating to several detectors. The detection accuracy rate is now above 99%, way above you just listening or watching for strikes.

    Some only detect ground hits, some also do air-to-air strikes. Most tell you how old a strike is. Check your APp data before you buy.

    Some of the APPS require a GPS in your phone or iPad so the APP knows where you are. Others require you to type in a zip code. And you will need connection to the interwebs.

    A bit of reading if you are interested. I'm not sure how recent the paper is. The technology changes fast.

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/BAMS-89-2-180
     
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  9. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    All very informative, but the coachsmart app is free. So I don't know if any of what you provided applies to that one, and given that it is free, produced by the Med School at Vandy and being plugged to NFHS state associations, it is likely to be one of the more prevalent ones used. Thus, I'm particularly interested to know exactly how it works.
     
  10. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I spent an hour or so researching the APP and downloaded it (IOS version). Unfortunately, I think you are getting full value for what you paid.

    None of the info lists any direct connection to a lightning detection service, which leads me to believe it is gathering information from weather stations that provide that info. I live about 2 miles from the center of Portland and about 5 miles from PDX airport, and when I just tried it I got a " lightning detection not available" message. I guess that's good, so I know not to depend on it. But that would make it depend on the capabilities of my local weather station. In Portland, lightning isn't the highest reporting priority. Things like earthquake and volcano alerts are.

    Still, if you are in an area where the weather stations are plugged into a lightning alert system, it could be very useful. But where I am, an APP that directly connects would be more useful.


    The APP does use GPS, which means you don't have to know a zip code where you are. Be aware that turning on GPS decreases battery life, so make sure the unit is fully charged before you walk out the door.

    If you do use it, be aware that the NCAA uses the 30 mile radius as the standard for action.
     
  11. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I tried the APP again this afternoon from the same location and it worked fine ( no strikes,But at least I'm not getting the no service message)

    You do have to turn on cellular data to get the gPS to work in IOS . You do NOT have actually subscribe to the cellular phone service plan, but you will need either that or a wifi network available. Out in the field with an iPad, wifi is unlikely.

    I'll let you know when I get the first strike message. It could be a while.
     
  12. nonya

    nonya Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    Few weeks ago I went out for two HS matches that should have been cancelled. One of those nights, you know the storm will hit right in the middle of the first game and the games should be called off at noon.

    One of my phone Apps with the lightning thingy on it sets off an alarm on the phone when lightning is within 10 miles. When the first match started the lightning was 30 miles away. I put my sporty blue tooth ear piece in my ear and start my match. 29 minutes in, my earpiece goes off with the alarm. Stopped the match, ran to my bag, looked at my phone, saw the lightning strike was 9 miles away. Everyone went for cover. A full 4 minutes later the lightning meter the trainer had went off in our sheltered area. The storm hit a few minutes after that. We never finished the match or played the second one that night.

    Same thing happened a week later.

    I live in an area where we have three major weather radar stations, because of the military bases nearby, that are very very sensitive. The NWS office in Charleston is down the road from me which is always very accurate in predicting storms. If you already have the equipment its a great tool to use.
     
    dadman repped this.
  13. PhilaDoop

    PhilaDoop Member

    Jan 1, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our league's policy is that the game must not be restarted until 30 minutes after the last lightning strike, and the total delay may not exceed 45 minutes. So if there's a strike after 15 minutes have passed, then pack it up, we're going home. Nice, clear cut policy and everyone knows exactly what to expect.
     
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  14. DrAnguish

    DrAnguish Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple of years ago the league I was officiating at (Florida in the summer btw) had a massive storm roll in, and roll in quickly. Everyone halted for lightning and we all took cover. The fields butt up against a busy road with wood fences and telephone poles, and there are some other buildings nearby. A couple minutes into our delay we saw some smoke and it looked like someone had their barbecue grill out. After a short while we realized that a bolt of lightning had actually struck the wooden fence and grass surrounding and started a fire. Luckily theres a first station just on the other side of the complex so it didnt get out of hand and was quickly extinguished.

    Point of the story is that it was a good life lesson to all the people out there that day. THAT is why we have lightning delays. If that bolt would've hit 100 yards away from where it did it wouldn't have been the fence on fire it would've been right on the field where we were just playing.
     
  15. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    From that link:
    If this happens, there is nothing wrong in my book with contacting the police.
    Child endangerment is a crime.
    The police aren't going to arrest anyone nor should they. But they are good at "urging" parents to make the right decision.
     
  16. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Either it is child endangerment and thus a crime and the police are going to arrest all the parents and Child Services are going to take all the kids, or it's not.

    Stupidity isn't (necessarily) illegal.
     
  17. iron81

    iron81 Member+

    Jan 6, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Fotis Bazakos just stopped a game due to lightning after awarding a penalty kick to RSL but before allowing the kick to be taken in a tie game. RSL is going to feel aggrieved if they can't restart the game.
     
  18. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good for him for having the guts to make the call to suspend the game.
     
    dadman repped this.
  19. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Ditto.
    Some refs would allow the kick and then call it.
     
  20. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

    Mar 30, 2011
    Last week I suspended a match for about 30 minutes due to lightening. I went and sat in my car, and everyone else, ARs, players, coaches and spectators, stayed at the field.
     
  21. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lawsuit waiting to happen.
     
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rapids tweet on the delay said that the delay was called and by regulation would happen at the next restart. Since the PK was the next restart they immediately pulled the teams.
     
    dadman repped this.
  23. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    The rule is 30 minutes after any sign of lightning or thunder, and yes, if there is more lightning or thunder after 15 minutes of the first occurence, they call it quits. At the youth level, they call it a full game if they got to half time.

    One problem I have seen is parents and players saying "why are you calling the game, it hasn't been 15 minutes!". They don't take into consideration that with access to weather tools, and the time it takes to inform everyone, it can be a good 5 or 10 minutes just to clear all the fields. Often, everybody just about got to their cars, and then the final decision about calling the games was made soon after.

    I have also seen games in a city where the kids and parents went into a local high school that was open, or another building. Unfortunately, I've also seen kids leaning against metal fences waiting for their parents to pick them up from off-site parking.

    What is recommended in that case, where you do have kids on the field, and they actually want to get into a car, but the parent is nowhere to be found? I saw a very sad case where a 10 year old broke his wrist, and he had been brought to the game by another kid's parent. Luckily, his twin was on the team, and could comfort him (compound fracture, no one's fault, he slipped not near anyone on turf) until the ambulance showed up. Parents had to meet them at the hospital. I feel it is best to warn parents about the potential for lightning if a particular day is suspect, so they stay nearby.

    Professional refs have it tough, but you have to be zero tolerance and hopefully have others backing you up. One of the many reasons to have a headset is to be told of serious weather issues. I know of games that were called due to tornado warnings but no lightning or thunder.
     
  24. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure about this - In Colorado for the youth games, the way the rule is written and the way it is implemented is that the 30-minute window restarts if there is additional lightning or thunder within the distance parameters - we don't automatically call it quits or call it a full game. I've been in tournaments with 90 minute or 2 hour delays where you still try to get the match completed. It doesn't always work, but we often try.
     

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