Super Conferences

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by fishon, May 23, 2010.

  1. fishon

    fishon Member

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    With all the talk of conference realignment, formation of 4 super bcs conferences of 16 schools each, these schools breaking away from NCAA, how will this effect women's soccer?

    -What would be the top conference?
    -Would the other conferences stay division one?
    -Would these schools even sponsor olympic sports?
    -Would they add fishing instead? :)

    If the Big ten moves to expand the SEC, ACC, Big East, Pac 10, Big 12 will all scramble to merge, expand, very quick.

    Thoughts?


  2. New Engalnd Nellie

    New Engalnd Nellie Member

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    I have seen bsc mentioned a number of times. What axactly is a bcs conference?

    Be patient - I'm a beginner!
  3. carolinablue_cchs07

    carolinablue_cchs07 New Member

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    bcs schools are the ones that compete for the major national titles in football-- southern cal, notre dame, florida, bama, texas. non-bcs schools are the little ones with less-than-powerful football teams (or nonexistent ones!)-- think the basketball upset schools, like Murray State, Butler, Southern Illinois, etc (i'm throwing out mid majors in my area cause that's who i know for sure ha!).

    and fishon-- random but true fact: fishing is a club team sport at Murray! bahahaah!! no joke. then again, we're 20-30 minutes tops from two big lakes-- KY and Barkley///Land Between the Lakes. i grew up going to Kenlake a lot ;) still do! good times when it's 94 degrees and 90% humidity.
  4. New Engalnd Nellie

    New Engalnd Nellie Member

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    I would never have put that together. Thanks!


  5. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

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    Conference expansion and consolidation, sure, but is there really talk of "breaking away from the NCAA"? This could only even be possible for the BCS football schools in football only as every other sport, including big-money basketball, would want to compete for legitimate national championships.
    Perhaps getting football out of the equation altogether would actually calm things down for a while, something soccer folks probably want (and the basketball folks).
    Reality check - As soccer supporters we are just puppies in all this following the big dogs and just hoping for adequate funding and a conference schedule that seems reasonable. I'd love to hear the hoops and football folks really going at it in these power conferences...is the Big East a football or basketball conference anyway?
  6. nastyasiwant2b

    nastyasiwant2b New Member

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    It all about how to share (or not) t.v. money! BIG XII does not share equally...it's proated on how you do. ACC, SEC, BIG 10 seem to have this sorted a bit better for equity of revune so the leagues improve all it's members.
    This is the same reasoning why American Baseball struggles with small vs. big markets.
    Teams that have smaller budgets want equal share...teams like the Longhorns (should just call'em Yankees) want the whole pie!
  7. uscue13

    uscue13 Member

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    This is something I've always wondered about ... scheduling. If you have these superconferences of 16 teams (which won't happen but let's be theoretical), do you play all 15 teams in conference plus four non-conference? Do you play your division (I'm guessing there would be two 8-team divisions) plus half the other and fill out non-conference? I've never been a fan of deciding a regular season champion without each team playing each other. I think (but may be wrong) that the BIG EAST does it that way right now.

    @NewEnglandNellie - the BCS conferences are the six major athletic conferences in the nation: ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, BIG EAST, PAC10 and SEC. Every other D1 conference is referred to as "mid-major" in the media. It all originated from football in that the big six conferences have the most difficult schedules (due to $$ their teams/conferences have to build strong programs), so football came up with a BCS computer rating to determine who plays for the national title. Obviously, the schools that traditionally have a realistic shot at coming to the top of the BCS formula were from the major six conferences, and that started people calling them BCS conferences
  8. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

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    per uscue13 comments, this is also why there is little chance of every having a football national championship tournament. In basketball, the NCAA runs "March Madness" and keeps the vast majority of the profit. In football, the BCS conferences run the bowl season and divvy up all the dollars at the end - it will be very hard for them to ever give that up.
  9. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

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    That's also why its conceivable that the BCS schools could try to make the BCS more of a governing body like the NCAA and leave the governance structure of the NCAA for football only. 6 BCS conferences at 16 schools each makes 96 schools that could be invited. 15-game schedules, conference championship games, plus everyone gets a bowl game = MONEY. There's no question football people sit around and think about all the possibilities but I cannot imagine it affecting other sports directly...
  10. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    This can get pretty complicated and confusing. The NCAA's governance structure recognizes "Football Bowl Subdivision" schools and "Football Championship Subdivision" schools and "other Division I" schools (which presumably means those that don't have football). Within the governing sports committees, the membership is weighted towards the "Football Bowl Subdivision" schools, which must have a majority of the committee membership. For example, of the members of the Women's Soccer Committee, six members must represent NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision schools and four must represent NCAA Football Championship Subdivision schools or other Division I schools.

    Within this structure, the FBS schools are the schools in the ACC, Big Twelve, Big East, Big Ten, CUSA, Mid-American, Mountain West, Pac Ten, SEC, Sun Belt, and WAC conferences, plus Notre Dame, Army, and Navy. When there is talk about "super conferences," is the talk mostly about possible mergers of CUSA, Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt, and WAC with the six so called six "BCS conferences"?
  11. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

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    Most of the Super Conference talks currently revolves around the B10 looking to add 3-5 schools. Most popular options currently bandied around would be ND, Missouri, Nebraska, and one or more of the NY market schools (Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse). It's all about new TV markets for the B10 network which currently distributes roughly $22M per school. It's a no-brainer for Missouri and Nebraska, but ND still wants to remain independent (they would actually receive more $$$$ from the B10 but as we all know they are "special").
    If this happens, then the dominoes start to fall with the top mid-major schools like Utah, BYU, etc... getting poached by the B12, etc... to fill the lost members. Also talk of the P10 going after folks like Colorado.
    When the dust settles in 2-3 years I would predict the current conference alignments will look nothing like they do now.:cool:
  12. thesoccerphantom

    thesoccerphantom Member

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  13. tcrawdad

    tcrawdad New Member

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    It'll be a cold day in hell before anyone cares enough about the ACC to pull them in if it's all about football. Basketball is another story, but basketball doesn't drive the BCS and the ACC just isn't a "player" when it comes to football. Gone are the days when Clemson, Florida State or Miami struck fear in anyone's hearts on the football field.
  14. Tokonta

    Tokonta Member

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    Clemson????
  15. fishon

    fishon Member

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    From Fox Sports

    It is possible that the Big Ten will grow to a 16- or 20-team giant, with a television footprint that reaches from the heavily populated Northeast to the High Desert Plain. And if it does expand, some very large dominoes will begin to fall.

    Other major conferences will have to grow in kind or be left to, say, pursue a traditional university mission. Already, there has been conjecture that there will be three or four huge conferences that will be built as a reaction to, and using the business model of, the Big Ten.

    Football is the common denominator. The Southeastern, Atlantic Coast and Pacific 10 conferences are the likely candidates. They will gut lesser conferences in order to grow beyond the shadow of the Big Ten.

    In college football (and basketball) terms, what will emerge are four major TV networks. Sports are merely programming -- but the business is broadcasting. It follows, then, that the conferences/networks will be thinking how to further drive their profits through their programming.


    Taken to the fullest extrapolation, one can imagine these super-conferences getting together to stage their own national tournaments as TV events. It will happen with football first, for a couple of reasons. Although the NCAA lends its sanction, it controls neither the postseason bowls nor the Bowl Championship Series, and that's where the money is.

    It can happen this way. The Big Ten is assembling the apparatus to make it possible. The super-conferences will drop the pretense of being part and parcel of the "student-athlete" experience.

    Will that mean those who drive the revenues, the football and basketball players, will finally get their slice of the pie? That some century-old rivalries will be scuttled in the name of expansion and enterprise? That our view of college sports will change forever?

    It is difficult to say. These wheels of change have been turning for some time -- now, they're just spinning much faster. A brave new world may be opening before us, just beyond the next
  16. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

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    Ha ha. You must be a youngster.

    They do have more ACC championships than any other school, and they did beat Nebraska for the National Championship in 1981.

    Oh yeah, they also had a coach named Heisman at one time. Maybe you heard of him?
  17. Tokonta

    Tokonta Member

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    WOOOOOOW! They won a National Championship in 1 9 8 1! Congratulations. I'm sure if you asked most any commentator, football sports-nut, Coach, player, school, teacher, sister if winning a National Championship back in 1 9 8 1 is something they are going to be shaking in their boots at my guess is your wrong. Get with the program. 29 years ago! Football has changed tremendously since then.
    Memo: Just because they Had a Coach named Heisman and won more ACC Championships and that they have the name "Clemson" written on their backs doesn't scare me and I can't speak for many others but certainly in todays game there's not going to be many programs that are scared to play them.
    Your talking 29 years ago. You would have thought by now Clemson would have come full circle and at least finished in the TOP 10 for at least 5 years in a row the way your talking. Come on now Florida State and Miami but surely not Clemson!

    Here's some real football programs (page to the bottem). Since you like past history maybe Princeton, Yale,Harvard or even Georgia Tech(for that matter) can give you a game! Good Luck!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_FBS_national_football_championship
  18. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

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    Just think, if you were 21 when Clemson won their last championship you would now be 50 and waiting for your AARP card to come in the mail, but then on the other hand I would bet all those folks appreciate being called younsters - good for the self-esteem!
  19. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

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    The Big East plays an 11 game conference schedule (you play the 7 teams in your division and 4 of the 8 on the other side on a rotating basis).

    It's worth noting that a 16 team gridiron conference might not be that heavy for soccer, but generally you want to keep nearly half your schedule for non-conference games. The ambitious programs want to play a national schedule and the lesser programs want to contain travel costs by playing nearby mid-majors.

    It's also worth noting that ALL NCAA D1 conferences are growing right now. Upward drift means D2 schools going D1 and D1's looking for bigger conferences - the Summit League (the old Mid-Con) is up to 11 teams, and the Horizon is at 10, Denver is one of 13 teams in the SunBelt, and the SoCon and C-USA each have a dozen women's soccer teams. If the Big10 ends up adding only one or two schools, even if they steal Texas or Mizzou from the Big 12, there may not be the domino effect everyone is talking about. The key may be whether the Pac10 feels like IT has to expand. But since conferences outside the big five (Pac10, Big10, Big12, ACC, SEC) have long since given up on geography, I'm not sure you're really talking about as a big a change as people think.

    They should really rename the position from Athletic Director to Entertainment Director.
  20. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    Excerpt from an interview with Pac 10 Commissioner Larry Scott by The Oregonian reporter R.J. Rico, published yesterday, May 30:

    "Q: who is going to sit down and make the big decision of whether to expand?

    "A: Ultimately it will be my board of directors and the ten university presidents. My job is to go out and do the analysis and decide if I'm going to recommend to them we do anything or, if not, why I think we should stay as we are.

    "Q: If the Pac-10 is going to expand, is a one-team option viable, or will it be two teams?

    "A: We're not giving any serious consideration to a one-team option. I've kind of tongue-in-cheek described our strategy as 'Noah's Ark' -- that we'll go two-by-two. Also , one of the benefits of expansion would be holding a football championship, but need at least twelve teams for that."

    And, from an article in The Oregonian on May 27, by the same writer, reporting an a speech by Scott before the Multnomah Athletic Club in Portland:

    "Two related events could create an opportunity for increased exposure [of the Pac 10 to a national audience]. The Pac-10's media contrcts expire after the 2011-2012 school year, as do the Big 12's contracts. And the Big 10 and Pac-10 conference each have said they are considering expansion.

    "Scott said that before a long-term deal is reached with a network, expansion of the Pac-10 may prove advantageous.

    "'The lever that we can pull to close that gap (with other conferences0 is really in media rights,' Scott said. 'When we think about expansion, what's going to add value (are) schools that can deliver major audiences in key markets and that have strength in football and basketball.'

    "Although he did not elaborate on which universities are being considered, Scott said after that talk that if the conference were to expand, it would want two schools. Currently, the NCAA requires conferences to have a minimum of twelve members for a football championship game to be held."

    I read this as meaning the Pac 10 is very seriously considering expansion and, if it decides expansion would be beneficial, will do it very soon so the added markets brought by the new teams can be part of the equation as the Pac 10 negotiates its media contracts that will go into effect for the 2012-13 school year. If seems to me that given that time-line for the new contracts, negotiations for them would be beginning quite soon.
  21. nastyasiwant2b

    nastyasiwant2b New Member

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    BYU and UTAH?
  22. usa11soccer

    usa11soccer New Member

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    Utah and Colorado?
  23. uscue13

    uscue13 Member

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    Yeah, I don't know why but I just hate having a schedule format where all the teams don't play each other. Say Notre Dame and Marquette both go undefeated during the regular season. Who is the regular season champion, the team with the better GF/GA ratio? That's not fair to a defensive oriented team that shuts out all their opponents but only wins games 1-0 whereas ND might average a 3-1 victory. I know it also happens in smaller conferences where the two teams played each other on the field and maybe had a tie, but at least they played it out between each other. No ifs, ands or maybe's.

    I think a 15-game conference schedule plus 5 conference would be feasible. One of those NC's might be a natural rival, and the other four can be regional or national depending on your program's desires. If the SEC grabs four more schools and three are strong soccer programs (say WVU, UCF and FSU, not likely but just for discussion), would the current top SEC programs have to play a difficult non-conference schedule to make NCAA's?

    In the ACC, UNC currently doesn't have to do that but they do to test themselves for the tourney. If ACC adds three tough programs (say Florida, Georgia, Rutgers), they or someone like Duke wouldn't need to keep scheduling Notre Dame, Stanford, UCLA etc for their non-conference games. They'd be plenty tested and wouldn't want to risk any more loses.
  24. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

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    who cares? that's what the conference TOURNAMENT is for, they'll get separated until the final as a reward for both going undefeated . . .

    I think it'd be a real loss to college soccer to lose those inter-regional regular season games between top teams - I hope it doesn't go the way you envision, and honestly I don't think it will because the good teams and bad teams have the same interest in limiting conference competition to just over 50% of games (11-12) when possible. Of course, soccer won't really be at the table when this sort of thing is decided . . .
  25. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    I agree with Morris 20 about the need for teams to play a good number of non-conference games, and in particular inter-regional games. The RPI already has trouble ranking teams from the different regions in relation to each other because there are not enough inter-regional games. If teams play less, then the RPI will have even more trouble.

    The RPI also has trouble ranking teams from the different conferences in relation to each other, but less of a problem than for teams from different regions since there presently is a good amount of inter-conference play (especially as compared to inter-regional play). If teams were to start playing almost all their games within their conferences, then this will become an even bigger problem.

    To illustrate, suppose the ACC were to play only intra-conference games. And, suppose the Southwestern Conference were to play only intra-conference games. (I'm assuming for purposes of illustration that the two conferences have the same number of teams.) Suppose the two conferences teams' records were dispersed in an identical fashion. Then the top SWAC team would have exactly the same RPI as the top ACC team, and the RPIs of the other teams from the two conferences similarly would match from top to bottom.

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