I think the league CAN survive without two NY teams for sure - or even a NYC proper team (depending on your viewpoint) but I also think a second team in the area (NYC PROPER) would help the game a lot! To touch on a previous point - i dont like EVERYTHING about MLS but I think its doing a great job and my overall opinion of Garber is that he has done an amazing job with a league that was on the verge of folding back in the late 90s (Not discrediting all Uncle Phil did - props to that man) But Look at it - Garber has expanded - most have been successful - Look at hte Markets coming in. Most the teams are in or are moving into revenue controled stadiums for Soccer Only - things are looking up for sure!
Wow, talk about a self centered New Yorker...hey, that's what we are called around the country and this statement says it all. The league has had plenty of success already without a huge NY presence. Why should it stop, or slow down now? A strong NY presence would be hugely beneficial of course, but it is clear it is not mandatory. Sorry, just a fact. Hey, the NFL can never survive without a team in LA...right? We aren't as important as we like to think we are. Major asset? Of course, but MLS is doing pretty damn good without NYC.
Napoli is a NY'er in spirit, as he lives in Italy and is Italian. FORZA NAPOLI!!!!!! Tutto bene, Fabio?
Thank you, Chris. However I don't know because even the true NY'ers don't realize the absurdity to have zero teams ( there aren't teams, Nick...... ) in NYC. Unfortunately in this moment my only hope is that Petersen brings the FCNY in MLS in 2012 after that also Portland and Vancouver will leave the USL in 2011.......... FORZA VELEZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!
your funny...but re read my post bro- i said depending on your viewpoint - the NY area vs. NYC Proper means many different things to many different people! Does NYC have a team..no - does the NY Metropolitan Area have a team - Yes! I know the difference - trust me!
I grew up in middle village lol! Small World The MLS numbers - sorry - i still dont buy - I look at a Dallas game adn they come in saying 6 - 8 K but look at the stands Other is look at the Playoff game last year - well known that there were only about 2K in the stadium but attendance was 5K - I understand the attendance goes by tickets sold - and im sure your right they dont fudge the tickets sold number! But I was talking about seeing the butts in the seats - ya know! The rest of your post - i agree - it has come a long way and by year 30 im sure it will be a long way further. Its gunna take time -im in agreement there! We just have to hope those in charge do the right thing!
All valid points voidberg. I still am not sold however. This summer we saw gigantic numbers all across the country come out and watch those big teams from Europe and Mexico play each other and scrimmage MLS teams. If you are trying to tell me that star power does not draw crowds then...well then idk, your just crazy! I am not saying stack the team with $500 million worth of star power - players at the twilight of their careers bound to retire within the next few years. I am saying follow the Seattle model. Have a supporters group bar hop for an entire off season and really get out there and spread the word about the team. Sign a couple of "star" veterans ie Keller and Ljunberg (sp) and then build your team around them with young talent. A successful team, with young blood and veteran "star" power, is a recipe for a successful team on the pitch. Star power, young talent and success toppled with a grass-roots marketing venture by the team and its supporters group will build brand recognition. The revenue that this will generate will ensure a "revolving door" of young talent and star veterans is always in constant supply. If what I am getting at is true Metro, you want something like Columbus has...They have a strong fan-base and a successful on-the-pitch team. This is all good and fun when you are in Columbus, Ohio. Not NYC, up against NINE pro sports teams. You need to draw fans to the stadium. Big-names AND success on the pitch is the ONLY thing that will do this. Love Mike
Got ya. Yeah, it's tix paid for now. Not handed out. Paid. Butts in seats. Takes time. SOme markets, like anything else, are better than others. What's happened here has been nothing more than a shame with the mismanagement (lack of an owner). Without RB buying that team we may not even have a NYC area team. They forced that through with commitment and a ton of money. SHeer will and money. Napoli. Damn, I was just in the area! It is virtually impossible to build a stadium in the 5 boroughs. NY's american football teams couldn't even accomplish this (our most popular sport) and NY's don't give out tax money to build stadiums unless you are the Yankees (an iconic team). If you aren't in the city already with a plot of land, you ain't getting in. Do you really think Euro cities would allow clubs to move into the heart of a city/neighborhood and build a stadium from scratch. No freaking way! They can because the ladn has been used by those clubs for 60-100 or so years and they grew up in the city. Are part of it. I dare you to find a fresh piece of land in Roma, Munic, London, etc and try to get permission to build a new stadium for a new team. You would be laughed at. It is what it is here.
Beckham has not been a success for a "few seasons". He barely has one under his belt. One of the failures of the Metrostars management was the chase for the silver bullet star who would pack them into giants stadium game after game.
It's zoidberg, not voidberg dammit! I agree that a star is needed. It's just not the only thing. That's all. Everyone looks for different things and stays for different reasons. Stars are mostly one hit wonders in the US. When they play for a fun/successfull team with a nice stadium, in a good atmosphere, with a decent sized/hardcore supporters group (whose goals are a succesfull team first), it's how you hook more fans. Again, over my lifetime the one hit wonder star theme in soccer has been just that. A flash. It's always faded. Always. No matter who and what. Always. To be successfull long term you need substance/a platform behind that star. RB is opening their stadium next year. They have an open DP they said they will use. Henry loves NY. Says he wants to come here. Sounds like a perfect fit, and he sounds a lot like Beckham did several mths before he came here. I wonder. Then again, can you use 2 DP's on forwards and have a team that works? Who cares if Henry comes and NY still sucks. People will show up for the flash first time around and it will fade, and they will go away again. Ask Metrogo. That is the true history of US Soccer. You need balance. Period. Which is what I posted initially. One thing does not make for a successfull business.
Did Djorkaeff put people and keep people in the seats? Schelotto? Branco? Stoichkov... Stoichkov for christ sake? Mattheus? Ravelli? Valderrama? It's not like no one has thought of this, it's just that it hasn't worked. Beckham is special. The only player in the world who could have the same attendance effect in my opinion is C. Ronaldo. People aren't that interested in seeing one or two great players surrounded by 9 guys making $50K per year. It wears off fast.
Very fast. No offense LI soccer, but you are exactly the type of guy we were talking about earlier. The reality of the game here is very different than you think. I've seen/heard of many owners/investors here (yes, I am high up my corporate scale and have seen quite a bit) who have all of these grand expectations/ideas and then when they try and implement them - wham! A cold hard smack in the face. That is soccer in the US. It's been tried to death over decades...and it hasn't worked. Why would the same thing that hasn't owrked for decades, with multiple owners/investors having given it a go. work miraculoulsy now? What's different now?
Call it what you want or for how long you want but Beckham has increased the attendance levels for the league. His circus is number one in terms of road attendance or away attendance in MLS, Chivas USA is second. MetroStars management failed at many things, chasing whatever bullet like you say, is just one of them. Either way, I still feel that you need stars in your league to make it attractive and on top of that, you also need to constantly renew them. It's just the cost of doing business.
It has to be a mixture of star power with a well managed team. The star brought in should be brought in because his skills compliments the team not because he's going to bring in more attendance. Schelotto is a good example of a player that has worked well with his teammates, unfortunately he doesn't have the drawing power of a Beckham, along with the insertion in the wrong market. But you are right, you can't rely squarely on just bringing in stars. There has to be some more. (maybe more stars per team).
The only star that has drawn fans has been blanco, but the fire are a well managed team that is almost always in contention. Also there aren't too many blancos to go around.
you dont think Beckham has drawn fans?? - even though the numbers have decreased his games -even on the road are highers drawing than other games tickets sold attendances are hihg 22K at DC 20K at Chicago 26K at New England 23K at Red Bull Maybe you can argue it didnt do much in DC or chicago but probably still higher than the average - ya know. I do agree - Blanco has helped attendances aind IMO the best DP in terms of football we have is Scholetto - very quitly that guy has come here and played great football!
Nick, Beckham has the highest road attendance in the league, its obvious that he draws. Same thing for Chivas Usa and Blanco, they both have high road attendance. Stars bring people in but you have to renew them when their drawing power diminshes. It's a constant revolving door.
Um I am only buying season tickets next year for the new stadium if they sign Henry..I can name several of my friends with the same mind set.. otherwise I will come see the stadium a few times here and here. A couple of these MLS "stars" you keep mentioning Metro are barely recognizable in my eyes. I was a very casual and very young soccer fan back in those days, and quite honestly only heard of Valderama and that was ONLY because of his hair and it was only AFTER he was in MLS. I interned (for the most part) with a USL team, and I got to travel up to Rochester and Montreal and meet management up there and see how they run the show. I am not saying I am truelly in the know zoidberg (happy lol) but I got a taste of it. Neither you or Metro seem to be reading my posts close enough. I am not saying..get a big name, and fill the seats for a year or two!! NO I am saying get someone the savy soccer crowd in this country (which is larger then it EVER was in the 90s and early 2000's) would recognize and build the team around him with young foreign and or domestic talent. Keep this strategy going with the revenue you take in, and this becomes a revolving door strategy. This is not a foriegn, or played-out concept. I am pretty sure teams like the Mets (Beltran, Delgado, Santana, K-Rod), Yankees (A-Rod) Rangers (Messiah, Jagr, Shannohan etc) have employed for decades. You get a star or two to build your team around because he will fill your seats and because he will bring veteran leadership. I will repeat..the soccer savy crowd in this country, thanks to TV...has grown ten fold since the days of Mathhius (sp). Comparing empty seats when "stars" such as him were signed, to the effect Henry would have if he would be signed is unfair.
If your friends say that -that is their perogative. Just like those who wont go because they dont feel its a real NY team. I never took RB on as my team - have I gone to games and supporetd - Yes - do i continue to do so - yes but as a fan of the game! Getting season tickets does not say you are a supporter or not! In my opinion, in sports, its to each his own - why they do or dont support a specific team. I bet you if you have a friend and he says - Im a BILLS fan because they are the REAL NY team (which i have heard) We dont beg them and say - no no no - you have to support the Jets or Giants - We let it be - and I think the same should be done with RB! Whatever your reason for not supporting them - so be it! The only reason that should be unacceptable is MLS SUCKS! That reason I hate! Is the quality worse - sure - absolutely but its still OUR league and we should go support it..even if it is once and a while! Chris - again - im not saying you need a team of stars - nor am I saying you dont need to refresh the stars - im not saying that! Im just saying star power is needed but I also see Metrogo and Zoidbergs point that there needs to be a balance and a good product on the field. A Nice combination of both! Is beckham washed up or not - its an opinon thing but he still draws fans - that is for sure. What really bothers me about the Beckham thing (and this is me still loving the guy from when he came up with United) but we can all shit on him when he doesnt play or does not show heart. We can all shit on him for the Milan thing but right now the Galaxy is in a playoff spot - Beckham has a couple of solid goals for them and he is playing solid - but we dont see media saying "Hey - Becks is OK this season - Credit due" but when the season is over and the Milan talks go back on - it wil be SHIT on beckham all over again! Again, I am bias with Beckham - will admit it - I love the guy! Always have! Two corners taken off his foot in May of 1999 gave me one of my better days in soccer!
Nick, I think that we are both saying the same things, just using different words. I've never really hated him, even being English. I found him quite open and charismatic. I also didn't understand the desire to hate him or even be vocal about it. Either way, he does deserve some credit. Maybe this is a turning point for MLS, and in turn allows them to see that the better players want to stay for the months that MLS is not playing.
He might but what I was getting at was that maybe MLS will now see that being more in tune with the international calender will afford them more stars. Also it will allow them to keep more stars by allowing them to stay fit during the off season. The present setup does not allow for that and the reason why Beckham is leaving.
You say that Mattheus and the others are before your time, so you don't know much about them, but somehow you do know what soccer was like in the USA during those very same times. What are you trying to say? Either the 90's and early 2000's were before your time, of they're not. What you describe in the first quoted paragraph is pretty much what MLS teams try to do. Look at Red Bulls. Juan Pablo Angel is the exact type of player who the savvy soccer fan knows is quality, and the team makes it to the finals, first time, and what happened to attendance this year? Nothing. You can also look at schelotto in Columbus, same thing. So what's your point exactly? And P.S. MLS average attendace is slightly lower this year than in 2002. So I'm not sure what your basing your assertion on that soccer is more popular now. And speaking anecdotally, there has been a huge soccer savvy crowd in NYC since at least the early 90s, when I started watching games from England here.
I was just quoting you saying that stars like becham increase attendance for a few years. You have no basis for saying that. You're just saying it to make your argument better but it's false. Beckham is a draw and will continue to be as long as he continues to play, and not just for a few years, though of course the attendance is way off from his first year. Why don't you give us names for the other 14 teams that you think would increase attendance, and then tell us whether the increase in payroll costs to get those stars will be outweighed by attendance and television figures. Lay it out for us. Why do you suppose MLS isn't taking your advice to get big stars and to rotate new ones in? I mean it's their money after all, don't you think they'd want to maximize their profit?