Yea the TOA. Haha. So much for them and their ideas....USL is ganna look a lot different in the next 5 years..that much I can say. And no, FC New York was NOT napping this summer. Would you hire a coach if the league was going through as much turmoil as it did? I certainly woudln't; and that is my guess as to why you "haven't heard anything"
At the moment, it's hard to criticize FCNY for not having a coach, roster or their vaunted "european partner" given the turmoil of the league. The problems became public after the their first partner backed out, so I woul suspect it would be hard under the present circumstances to get a new one. And I have two questions. one, what is a "TOA"? IT usually means "terms of agreement", but the context doesn't seem to fit here. Second, why does the league have to have an owner?
Again, I'm really asking, LISoccer maybe you can answer. Why does the league have an "owner" separate and apart from the individual teams?
Beats me. Hey I liked everything the TOA stood for minus the penalty shootout, the 35 yard offside line and I had mixed feelings about the whole August to May schedule. I like how they went and talked with the MLS, but it seems that idea brought them nothing as well - was dumb anyway...they want more autonomy so they go to MLS? If I to guess...I'd say the USL is doing some serious restructuring. USL kind of honestly annoys me...everything they do is sub standard - and the guys who did do it right are all high-tailing for MLS in the next couple of years. Rob Clarke did not know what SUM was.
THis is the scariest thing for USL to me - The biggest clubs are all gone by 2011 - what happens then? Peterson and Treiber are putting money into this venture, I wonder if they were made aware of the situation? (They knew big clubs were leaving but did they know the league was about to sell) IM not doubting - im just seriously wondering! The USL situation right now is ugly at best!
There are always people who wanted to champion the USL as some pure soccer venture. Even when MLS was in peril several years ago. The problem is that the USL has always operated like this. Always. This is not new. From the old A League to today. For all the complaints about how MLS is/was run it is a well oiled machine compared to the USL. It unfortunately has always been a "fly by the seat of your pants" operation. When people actually learn about the business of soccer in this country their opinions usually change dramatically. It's always easy to have the answers on a net board and know you know better. Reality is just a wee bit different. I have alway thought that regionalizing would be the best, and eventually only way to go for the USL. USL can not survive, add a lot of cities, and keep them by remaining national. There is clearly a need, and IMO a real market for the USL, but not on this scale. It hurts the league more than it helps right now. MLS seemed forced at first, and I think a national footprint for the USL at this juncture seems forced (and not practical now). Yes, it's amazing how few people know how the game works here, it's history, challenges, and what it takes to make it work (time and money). Never ceases to amaze. There are always the clueless Claure's out there. I hope this gets resolved quickly and works itself out. The USL breakup/revolution was always coming. Easy to see. Now we see how it all sorts itself out. There is nothing harder to do than build any type of fanbase with complete uncertainty about the league and structure. Thi shas to get resolved ASAP.
I agree I think a regional approach would be better for the USL at this juncture! I hope it gets resolved too! THe folding of the USL can only be bad for the sport in this country! Great post!
One think I have learned Zoidberg in my little foray into the business side of soccer in this country is that it is littered with the detritus of sports guys who go into it thinking one thing but the reality being very different... and "european partners" who, when they learn about the reality and abandon their fantasies about football here, decide to keep their money at home. This is not a dig at FC NY, because I'm not saying it's not possible to pull off, but for fuxake your eyes need to be wide open! and PS I also agree with the regional approach.
My guess would be they combine USL 1 and USL 2 and move up some PDL teams. They may not say it outright, but many USL owners want to compete with the MLS. They blame poor marketing as the only reason why this isn't an AFL vs NFL situation as opposed to an MLB vs Minor League Baseball as it is in reality. They think that since they win Open Cup and Champions League matches, the product they put on the field must be comparable to the one MLS puts forth. It is simply not the case - MLS does not, for whatever reason, take these cup competitions serious. Zoidberg hit it right on the money. Most of the guys who run the sport in this country really have little to no true knowledge about the game of soccer. At the same time though, none of us on these boards have any idea how soccer as a business is really run here in the states either. We must remember that 99% of the owners here in the USA are not passionate soccer fans like you and I. They are business-men. If they can make a profitable soccer team staying in the USl and drawing 5,000 fans a game, the option of upgrading to a 40,000 seat stadium and paying $40 million in franchise fees to join MLS just to be in the red for 4 or 5 years is unacceptable. (see Rochester) This is a sport run by people who don't strive to see soccer grow in this country, who don't strive to see the talent develop in this country; rather it is run by business-men and women who champion the dollar first and foremost. I am a capitalist; don't get me mistaken by my above comments. But in order for this sport to grow, the men and woman who run the show here in this country need to do things a little differently. Yes we get it, MLS was created by the USSF in order to guarantee we hosted the World Cup. For that, we know that MLS is in bed with the USSF and from the on-set was always considered the premier division of soccer in the states..regardless of already-existing leagues in this country (see A-League - the forefather of the USL)...the owners of the USL need to come to terms with this and approach the MLS. The MLS needs to buy the USL and use it as a farm system and a test-league for secondary markets. The USL will gain much more credibility and be worth more (I would guess) and the MLS will get a 'reserve'/farm league as well as teams in secondary markets to help grow the sport there as well as become potential candidates for (dare I say it) promotion one day. There does not need to be relegation mind you. The promoted teams will have to meet certain criteria (see Toronto, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, and Montreal)...the only hurdle to this quasi-promo/rel system would be FIFA. FIFA would most definably pressure the MLS to incorporate a promotion/relegation system once an excess of 20 teams operate within its league. Just my two cents. What will most likely happen... USL will expand and contract several more times over the next 5 years. It will do wonders for developing the game in smaller markets, but owners will constantly quarrel with each other as to what direction the league should be headed. Eventually it will fall apart....I wouldn't care much, to be honest. MLS has kind of won my heart over. Mike
Not true. There are more than a few posters here who have made an attempt and been involved/seen the numbers at a high level. Myself included. It's why I am always so hard on the fantasy seekers, whether here or on the MLS boards. One point I want to make and it is a common misconception. Only a few clubs worldwide can run at a defecit and have owners who spend and don't care about profit/loss. Very few. Clubs dissolve, go bankrupt, are relegated more often than many know, and one thing to be certain - ...many players don't get paid and owners lose a lot a leave. Even at some larger clubs in heavy debt, everyone makes sure they get paid first, even most owners take their pay/slice, and then figure out the books. This selfless owner is BS for the most part outside of a few. They just their take, keep th edebt total running and move forward. You can argue that early MLS owners have sunk much more money into this game to make it work - for the love/passion of the game. Yes, there is a business opp there but the early guys stuck with it through big loses with money and commitment. It's a long process starting from scratch and you should give them more due IMO...as most should. Soccer, as a business is hard. We have had many guys with little clue, or guys who have a clue elsewhere, but not here (the US) trying to make a go of it. Invariably they bit eoff more than they can chew. Time, commitment and money. That's what it takes. In year 30 that will really be evident, and it is to much of an extent now after 16 years. There is no magic answer here. To many obstacles to list - from physical to mental. Time. Money. Commitment. Your basic net genuis doesn't get that formula. To easy to solve the worlds problems in a blog or with a post!
great post zoidberg. I think it's easy to criticize MLS, harder to build what they have built. There's lots of things I don't like about MLS by the way, but the way they've built a pro soccer league from a financial/business standpoint is not one of them. I think when LI Soccer and nick (I always luv ya nicky boy) talk about needing stars, not only do I think that's the wrong approach, but it assumes that MLS has got it wrong thus far. Again as a fan there's lots of things I don't like about MLS, but the fact is they have built a league that supports attendance that compare fairly favorably with the rest of the world. I'm sorry but under the circumstances MLS is doing pretty well. Not great, but I think pretty well was always the long term plan. I just laugh when people talk about the cosmos. I delight in telling euro friends that I saw the greatest team of all time. And the cosmos maybe inspired of americans to play the game seriously. But it's undeniable that the Cosmos were a failure. It was unsustainable, and it folded. Why some suggset that as a model is beyond me. And again, MLS is doing pretty well. We here in NY just have the misfortune of having no team and the most mismanaged team in the history of the universe across the river in Jersey. So maybe we don't see it so well.
Well said zoid. Unless I was filthy rich, there really wouldn't be much of a reason to go through with a venture such as starting a pro soccer team with anything but making a profitable entity in mind. And you are right, a good number of EPL teams for example, are not profitable.
haha - all in good discussion metrogo! Im not saying that the league needs rosters filled with stars at every spot but I do think that there needs to be players around the league to bring people out to See the games. We always talk about the success of Soccer in America - I think it is successful here - but in a masionic kind of way - its like a secret society that meets in pubs in the early morning or places to watch the games...overseas. (Many of my NON SOCCER FAN friends had no clue that bars have to close their doors so early) Sadly - we all have to admit - Soccer TV Ratings for international matches are a success. And like WOodside has said, why would people go out to watch MLS when they have access to the best leagues/teams/players in the world in the comfort of their own home. Also, as a fan we have to realize that MLS is very low on the todem poll when it comes to sports/sports leagues in this country. You have to figure the 4 Major sports rank higher in priority of most people and then you can add College Football/Basketball and Nascar. So right there you have two distractions from MLS - Soccer fans who would rather watch the Stars of Europ or South American and non soccer fans who have a gazilion other sports to watch. Drawing them out to MLS stadiums is the quest and that is why I think Star Power is needed. Burnley carries no debt and my beloved United Carries over 600 Million debt yet one of them will content for hte league title and play in the Champions League and the other will struggle to stay in the Premier league - even as a United Supporter - this is not fair!
A revolving door of star power. As evidenced by the many 'stars' that MLS has brought in, even the now infamous Mr Beckham, their luster fades after a few seasons. That's when you need to bring in another one to polish the surface and bring out the luster again. Combine that with some up and coming academy players and you might have a recipe for success.
their luster fades after a "few seasons"? Who? Which star has had luster for a few seasons in MLS? Again, where ethnic identificaiton isn't a key component. Even Beckham hasn't met that standard, and what about the other stars? Part of the failure of the metrostars was this reliance on the "star", which provided a 2-4 game bump in attendance, not even year long, and poor results on the pitch.
Beckham was an attendance success, as far as road attendance is concern. And some might say at the home depot center as well, considering that attendance was off this year. The point is that for star power to work, you need to renew your star ethnic or otherwise. It's a tactic not a strategy for attendance improvement. The blistering failure of the Metrostars has more to do with management than with stars or star power.
There is a lot of truth to what everyone says but soccer is a succes in the US. Hands down. I used to be mocked, and got into a fight once over 30 years ago, in an all Italian neighborhood in Queens because I played soccer (wore my colors, etc). That is not a joke. Soccer is a communist sport. A girls sport. Unamerican. Soccer was spit upon/mocked/hated. As a business it will never work here. It will fail. It's stupid. Boring. Waste of time and money. Only foreigners play it. If you compare soccer to the big sports here, that have been engrained in our culture for over a century, I bet many see many of the same things I mentioned. Just think of the negative/ignorance you see now and multiply it by 100. I'm serious. In this context the game has made mostrous strides. Monstrous. Also, another misconception. Yes, people watch foreign matches. Usually only the high profile/top teams and leagues. Guess what!? Outside of a few countries 90% of the world does this. 90% of foreign leagues deal with this issue...and it's a big one. A huge one is areas of Africa nd Asia where they have to schedule matches around big Euro matches or no one shows up for the local match. Yes, we have issues here and, and so do the majority of other leagues. This glorious love and support myth we give to foreigners is just that...a myth. THere is 10% of the soccer world with money and tradition that garners 90% of the attention. Then there is the rest. The one thing the US has that many don't, they are staying where they are, is potential. Real potential to keep getting bigger over time. MLS is succesfull. It's been here for 16 years, has a decent fanbase overall, owners, stadiums, and the perception is even changing mentally (IMO, it's changed drastically from 20-30 years ago). Just because we don't see it day to day, like your child growing, it doesn't mean it's not happening. While the issues/grwoing pains are there for all to see, so is the undeniable growth/stability of a league that was written off as a nother failure/dead just6 or 7 years ago. I'm not sure what people want or expect. It's what our society teaches over all else unfortunately. Give it to me or you suck/it sucks. We need more dads who walked 5 miles through the snow with no boots on out there. That's for certain.
Zoidberg - do you mind if I ask what area in Queens that was? Also - its a fair point to state that there are other countries where people watch foreign leagues - great point! I guess my only rebuttle to that is - in a country like say Norway where maybe the league is not very respected, people might watch the EPL or Spain but the difference with Norway to the US - Soccer is the GAME - its THE PREMIER GAME and to me - all it takes is a bit of fortune and that league will boom, where here, MLS has a lot more hurdles than say the Norway league (sorry - first country that came to mind) Me personally - I want to see MLS grow and become more poplular and to consistantly draw 15-20 K a game - and im talking Butts in seat - not fudged numbers! Metrogo - thats where me and you are different (and thats cool). I think it is bad and and if it keeps up - the game - in our country - and the league will not grow. While we talk about star power etc - we also need the fans to help the games be a draw and a place to go! They play a big role as well IMO - if it keeps as a Secret Society - then its not gunna grow much bigger than it currently is! IMO
Nick, maybe the problem is more simple : if is almost impossible to build a sss in the most important city in the world and if the MLS in 14 years has never had a team in NYC, it is even logical that this league will continue to have little success.............
I still hope that the true goal of Petersen and Treiber is that to bring this new team to be the 20th team in MLS in 2012 together to Montreal.
Middle Village. Also, MLS stopped fudging numbers a few years back. What you see is what you get now. Soccer is not the premier game in many countries also. Top three in most, been there longer than here, but there is comp. Again, it's the time issue. Building a hardcore fanbase/loyalty/tradition can only be done with time. Soccer will not be the premier game here, but it can be an important game here. BTW - Cross country skiiing blows away soccer in popularity in Norway FYI. It's true. MLS also needs a balance. There isn't one cure all. There has to be some name power, a good team that plays some decent ball, a nice venue/rev control helps, work in the community/marketing, youth programs, etc. There is no quick fix. The past failures of soccer in the US have been based on quick fixes - from the NASL to Champions World, and every other short term glitz operation. MLS is doing the ugly hard work. Every other league/sport that is popular in our country/around the world has had decades of time to grow. Ugly and small at first and they all grew over time...just like MLS will if they can keep, and improve current conditions step by step. Time. Money. Commitment. That's it. Note - Many smaller leagues have just as many hurdles as here. A few they can't cure. Money is limited. Population is limited. Quality is limited. They ain't growing much. They are what they are. MLS can be so much more...but it will take time. Like I said, by year 30 MLS will be so much more, yet the detractors will always wonder why they aren't at the next level already. Man always wants just what's out of his reach. 10 years ago soccer people would have prayed and begged (thought it was impossible) for the venues, owners, crowds we have now in many areas. 10-15 years from now I bet many will have what they wanted now...but they will have already forgotten that and will be looking forward. It is what it is.