I am going to put my money on Montreal and St. Louis as #19 and #20. After that, FIFA will start bugging MLS to promote and relegate teams...so it will stay at 20 for a very long time. I do not see a second MLS NY franchise for a very very long time. MLS needs to sell its first NY franchise and that brand spanken new arena they just built.. The MLS is bedfellows with the USSF and therefore will always be considered officially, the top flight of football here in the states. No matter how hard USL tries to change that perception in the coming years (and it will try, try oh so very hard) MLS will remain the top flight. Therefore I don't think you guys will see anything more then a "second tier" team play within the borders of NYC. In my opinion, every major sport in this country should have two leagues, a first division, which operates in major markets that are gaurenteed to support the specified teams by filling the stands and a second division, which plays in "experimental", "developing" and "secondary markets". The NHL and MLS have done the worse job at this. In the NHL, Bettman has been shuffling around teams and trying to expand the game to Southern US markets for a very long time. Both the MLS and the NHL need a league for these secondary, developing markets so we don't have to watch games on TV with embarrassing fan support (Phoenix Coyotes instead of Winnipeg Jet/Quebec Nordiques and KC Wizards instead of St Louis, NYC, Montreal). Sadly the MLS has zero intention of creating a minor league (most likely because FIFA would start to bug them to promote and relegate) and Bettman will continue to try and grow a cold climate sport in the South. In the case for New York, it is sad and depressing. The sport will not grow in this country without the support of NYC...I know you guys push for a second MLS team here with a SSS in Queens, but even that will do nothing for the town without a big star. When Beckham first came to NY, Giants stadium had close to 70k people in it...if we play in the Meadowlands or in Queens, the support is there. The key to success in NY is not a team and a stadium within the 5 boroughs, but a super-star playing within the metro area.
You are right about Star power - for sure - i agree there. ST Louis - i think is going to be USL - you obviously are not up to date on the happenings in MLS expansion - but thats cool - st louis is looking like USL Montreal - i got money for 19 As for second teir team in NYC - in time you will be proven wrong. Not tomorrow but in time! Or should I say stay tuned for more news in the next 2 - 3 months - that seems to be the popular way
I just don't agree with you or nick on this. The superstar strategy has been tried and has failed in MLS and the NY area. People come out for the first game or two as curiosity seekers, and then the attendance sags again. Beckham's second game in NY had about 20,000 people, and though it was a thursday night, it was a ballyhooed game, since it was his first one back, etc. The introduction of Lothar Mattheus was the same. 40K for his first game as a metrostar, then back to the doldrums. It seems to me that MLS has done fine without the superstars. NYC doesn't need a superstar, it needs a team done correctly, something the metropolitan area hasn't had for a generation now (since the cosmos).
You want to take this outside? Bottom line is though Metro - when Beckham goes to a city - STILL - numbers increase! I also think you will see numbers increase of there is an Henry. Del Peiro - etc. I really do think it would help numbers a whole lot! Then of course - what you said - that team needs to be managed correctly and marketed correctly to capatilize on that. Like it or not - agree or disagree - the Galaxy marketed the beckham thing great and it payed off for them. Now for their next DP they will be smarter in their decisions but they learned and got the most out of Beckham (Jersey Sales, Ticket Sales, Branding) And its like this in anysports. Look at the Nets - they draw D!ck and thats putting it nicely - but when Kobe comes in - or labron - they pack the place. Star power helps. Especially in a sport that is 5th most popular! and a league that still sits behind college sports in this country. Shit - even driving a car around in circles is more popluar. So I really feel - at this point - we need the star power to get people out - but more than just 1 star per team. They need to lift the cap - get one or two good names per team and put QUALITY around them. That will just be the start. Without it - we will just be "the sport that is going to blow up in 10 years" for a long time. Thing is - i dont see them lifting any cap until all teams are profitable and in their own buildings!
I don't think that I am. If MLS were so desperate for a NYC franchise that it would accept an underfinanced (relatively speaking) owner, it would have to be willing, as a league, to subsidize that NYC franchise. MLS tried this in Dallas and in Tampa Bay and I don't see the league ever going back there again. Also, if MLS was willing to accept something less than a "deep pocketed" owner just to get a NYC franchise, I think it would have been done by now.
I don't think that you can entice the NYC audience with just ONE superstar. It seems that the fine wine taste of soccer goers in NYC would need 2 or even 3 superstars to keep numbers up. But then again, this is something you need to have if you are intertested in having a sports team in NYC, just look at the Mets and Yankees. They need star power to keep fans in the seats.
The league would be kicking in capital in any NY team - Metrogo is right with HOW BADLY the league wants the team in NYC - we hear it all the time...but we are tired of hearing it but the reality is - they do. BUT They dont want to half ass a team in a shitty stadium in a location that does not draw. Yea - they could have done the team already - and build a stadium in a place like Floyd Bennet Field - which is not going to draw. They want a team in NYC but they want to do it Right - close to transportation - nice venue etc.
you need to win to - i mean shit - we cant be like argentina and be thin walking a world cup bid - not sure how that would go over PS - this post is a joke
Originally Posted by Metrogo "you are underestimating how much the league wants a nyc franchise." As an X-new yorker who still comes to town each month for business I state this: 1-The MetroStars have $10million dollar fee that must be paid to them first if any other team comes into the NYC/Metro area 2-The MLS requirements for stadium are their own and few places have the money or politic support. New Yorkers are just learning what Yankee stadium & Citi Filed will be costing the tax-payers its alot more than people in this financial environment with an election coming want to see. No stadium for New York, come on the Jets could not get one! 3-The USL will do very good in New York there was an article here that talked about the amount of time the owners spent in Europe and quoted Sam Ellis who spent a few days with them and he thought there plans were excellent 4- I signed up because I follow the board here and could not take the whining any more. QueensNick clearly you are passionate(where did you play?) and that is great, but does your arm hurt from patting yourself on the back all the time? 5- Red Bull is a good team, if you love the game, you want them to do well
ok ok fair do you have a link? never played - just love the game - and ps - you know nothign about me - before you come on and attack me - come out and meet me - you will see - what you see on a message board is not what you get....unless of course you are a sock puppet - which makes your antics more of a joke than my "patting on my back" so please - come out - meet me - get away from the message board and judge someone on an acutally conversation and not hte inet and if you still want to say - i pat myself...so be it - but be careful of judging someone on the internet. This makes you sound like a sock puppet
If MLS were willing to kick in money to "do it right" in NYC, with a nice venue near transportation, AND were willing to accept something less than a deep-pocketed ownership group, there would be no shortage of potential owners lining up at Don Garber's door. Of course MLS would love to be in NYC, nobody's arguing that. Just like MLS wanted to be in Seattle, but didn't go there until Joe Roth and Paul Allen came on board. Just like MLS would love to be in St. Louis, but not until the deep pockets arrive. Maybe MLS wants a NYC team even more than it wanted Seattle or wants St. Louis, but it's not going to happen until people with more much money than the FCNY people get involved, regardless of how well FCNY does.
There are a lot of "soccer moms" and family types in that 18-35 crowd (on the upper end of course, but still...), and I think a lot of people miss that point. My sister's 37, and her son (my nephew) is going to graduate HS this year. Not everyone in that demographic are members of the frat boy sector, who go to games for the "atmosphere."
Welcome to the boards Doc...it was me against the world for a while and it wasn't all that fun. Most people don't know about that extra $10 million...not saying these guys didn't know..but yea...it would cost an owner $50 million to start a franchise here in New York.....but what no one might is that deal is done at the end of this year (or next). @my up-to-date following of MLS expansion....I just read an article where Jeff Cooper discusses the TOA, and he mentions St. Louis going to MLS as one of his options. I don't think it was his pockets...I think (know) MLS just was not comfortable creating a team so close to their failure of a team in Kansas City. @super-stars...I don't need to reiterate my point as it seems most of you have backed me up on this one. Star power will draw, and a team with a star or two can be polished to be a great on-the-field product (see Cosmos late 70's). Star power is what fills the seats for the Mets, Jets, Yankees, Islanders, Rangers, Giants and Nets (poor devils). @soccer-moms....I don't think you understand my point - market to the masses, and be welcoming, but your target should be a 18-35 "frat boy" crowd. They will be the ones who fill you seats up rain or shine and electrify the atmosphere...Montreal only have around 100 "ultras" and they kept that stadium going the entire night. The 11,900 soccer moms that filled the rest of the stadium are a great source of season ticket revenue (see pro-passes for youth teams) but they just don't make the atmosphere as exciting as the supporters section. Good to see conversation on here again...and conversation that isn't about how much of a joke FC New York is or how racist I am...Theorycrafting...love it.
Yes agree, but to a certain extent. It's a mix of marketing concepts that you need to apply. First off you need to appear as if you are hardcore soccer team with all the credentials and credibility in place but at the same time you need to be at the doorstep of the soccer mom/family groups that will line your pockets with dough! When you can get soccer moms/family groups to accept and buy a hardcore supporter inclined soccer team then maybe just maybe you have got it right. Also have the proper set up at the stadium. Have the supporters groups cordoned off. Make it so that like minded individuals actually can sit with other like minded individuals so that they experience can be first rate. And ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS segregate the opposing fans. Agreed completely.
What's FCNY's stance if USL breakaway? I haven't really heard much from them. LIsoccer...do you know?
St Louis is interesting - i just think MLS does not want a team there and there was a report out saying that Cooper was trying to lead a charge to buy USL (http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/free-kicks/free-kicks/2009/09/usl-and-st-louis/) this is jsut a blog but i could not find the real story i saw Star power - i agree - especially for soccer - you need star power. If this were baseball - you might get away with it but not Soccer in the US! Sadly! As for the deal - i thought the rights to the second NY team were given up in 2010 - like Jan 1 2010 but i am not sure what that deal entails - a new owner might still have to pay a fee for putting a team so close - but I really dont know. USA vs. HOnduras - you should mark your calendar now and come down to meet all of us! its a saturday night!
Number 2...The Jets couldn't get the deal done because they wanted a 60-80 ,000 seat stadium in the middle of Manhattan . The Garden will be moving over near the JJ convention center in the next 10 years . And there is NO WAY, Manhattan people wanted 80,000 drunk NFL fans running around Manhattan every other weekend ..sorry wasn't ever gonna happen Number 3.. HUH ? Because Sam Ellis said so ? if FCNY draws more then 500 actually people in the stands , that will be a great success Number 4...Not that he needs help on this, but this guy like me wanted FCNY to be real and be located in the 5 boroughs. Feck we all went out and got drunk when we heard that NYC was getting a USL-1 club. Prove us wrong..and I'll be a happy man Number 5....We've brought out over 40 people to RB games..they are the local side until we get a team . And no they fecking suck..
Oh yeah, I see where you're coming from. That's why I've said many times, that there needs to be seating in the endzone of any stadium, where the supporters can have their own section, and it would be like their own Spion Kop. But in a crowd of 11,000, if 10,850 of your ticketbuyers are family types, you had better be nice to them. 150 flag waving, drum banging, singing supporters, no matter how often they show up, in whatever weather, aren't nearly enough to support a team financially. I am only trying to help quash the notion that it has to be either/or, rather than both/and. I certainly don't want to run the ultras off, but don't discount the soccer moms and their kids. The kids may not come to the games when they're adults, because they might be playing in them. All the other sports do a good job of attracting everybody; soccer needs to follow suit. Just don't make it seem like you're trying to keep the families away. Do your thing, and let them do theirs. Some of those people may want to come over to your side of the stands and join one day. Don't run off potential new members.
1. No, that provision has expired. 2. The election will happen november 3. I don't think we expected to get a stadium by then. As for citi field and yankee stadium .. no, people know. And there hasn't been nearly as much fall out as years ago when Dinkins gave money to the USTA. As for money, well, there's more unused cash sitting around than you would think. And ahhhh the "Jets" argument for the 10th time. The Jets couldn't get an 80,000 seat stadium in mid-town manhattan. Do you really believe that project would have anything in common with a 30000 seater in queens? 3. I don't even know what to say. 4. STFU 5. Why is red bull a good team? Quality on the pitch? Quality of the stadium? Fan relations? Attendance? Integrity? Tell me, where have they done well?
Queens Nick???Woodie Mets?? wrong island soccer guy??can't you help this guy out?Like we have in Tampa is a wait and see. The Rowdies came out for TOA...New York FC was quite during the summer saber rattling. Prehaps they are napping or by what I see now may be good for them as the TOA is ready to fold
Nicky, we have experience with this, and fans have said "No!" By game three, Metrostars games were back to average after we brought over Lotthar Mattheus. Even David Beckham, who is undeniably the best known soccer player in the united states (and as you know has a celebrity status beyond being a player), while the bump still seems to exist, it's off considerably. A couple of other players have provided temporary bumps to attendance, but those always had to do with ethnic identification.