Sporting KC vs. Montreal 5/5 p/i/p [R]

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by Sachsen, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Am I the only person who doesn't give much credence to the historical performance at certain venues? With that said, I think that CO and SEA have a bigger comparative advantage than places like CHI due to the unique nature of their field (CO) or the size of their crowds (SEA - since crowd size has been shown to impact ref performance).

    But I don't see Chicago being significantly different than any other away venue. Which is to say that it's still difficult, but solely because it's away.
     
  2. Churchill913

    Churchill913 Member

    Nov 17, 2010
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    A flat performance all around, similar to the dynamo playoff game. The center backs were more athletic and completely neutralized CJ. There was very little effective flank/ overlap play all night and constant turnovers in midfield. Movement of the ball was too slow and too much dribbling into their players. Collin needed to step up and challenge the first goal. They all fell asleep on the second goal. Not that it would have changes the outcome, but why not use the final sub? Does he not trust anyone else besides teal and nagamura? At least peterson will get in the box and get on the end of some crosses. Isn't this how PV described bravo last year? Convey is not bringing enough wide play, service, and no real threat to score. I hope to see a few changes in Chicago
     
  3. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Man... nothing went our way last night. That was fairly heart wrenching. Also, if Collin's perfectly timed slide tackle was a PK, we deserved about three PKs for getting mauled in the box. Felipe's strike was good, Rickett's had some good saves, but mostly this just felt like a game where absolutely nothing went our way. Even the post was taunting us there at the end.
     
  4. kmk108

    kmk108 Member

    Nov 13, 2011
    The 913
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If we don't pick up 3-4 points in the next two games, I'll worry. The midfield was just outplayed last night, and we know for a fact that it's not normal for that to happen. The only thing I'd like to see is a little creative, playmaker in the striker position. Neither Sapong or Bunbury are doing that. Sapong can muscle through defenders, but he has problems being able to just fire it when he sees fit. Bunbury can't muscle, but he'll shoot when he wants.
     
  5. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I'd also like to make the observation that the last two games we've seemed to switch to a 4-5-1 rather than a 4-3-3. Seems like we are really withdrawing and then having to expend a lot of energy pushing forward on the wings. It's translating into a lot of fatigue that gives way to hospital balls in the midfield. Sapong needs a little bit of support so he's not taking on 5 defenders at once. Not liking how the attacking frenetic pace of the first seven games seems to be gone and we are trying our hand at Houston's style of bunkering and scoring on a set piece now.
     
  6. Churchill913

    Churchill913 Member

    Nov 17, 2010
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    ^ lose pts at home they gotta get some back on the road. 2 won't do. I agree 3-4. I rewatched the penalty call and do not think it was a clear pk. Similar to a tackle on Kamara in the second half that was not called. Collin slides, knocks ball away, neagle drags feet and trips over well after the ball is gone
     
  7. Formulaic

    Formulaic Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know someone the other week said they were happy Zusi was trying to take on more defenders with the dribble. After last night, I have to say no thanks to that.

    But mostly, what's needed said was said. They looked good and made us look bad. Pk was soft but didn't matter anyway.
     
  8. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Getting shutout at home to an expansion team is unacceptable. Especially when you're top of the table and they're at the bottom. Losing isn't even the issue. That happens. If we'd lost that game 3-2, I'd still be disappointed but at least we could say, "Well, that's how it goes sometimes." 205 minutes without scoring against Portland and Montreal is a complete lack of concentration. Moreso against Montreal, as I'll give them a break against Portland because they looked very tired, and rightly so. But we had our chances in this one. We just couldn't put it away. I think over these last two games, it has become very clear that we are not a great finishing team. We just throw a ton of shit at the goal and usually get one or two to squeak in.

    As of right now, Kamara leads the league in "Shots." He is second in the league in "Shots on Goal." He is eight in the league in actual "Goals." This statline says it all for us this season so far. We're the "Kobe Bryant" of the league.

    Last night, Montreal had 6 attempts on goal. We had 22.

    Montreal had 3 shots on goal, and 3 went wide. We had 9 shots on goal, and 13 went wide. Good god. You would have thought Montreal had two goalkeepers or something.

    Also, was anyone else a little disappointed at how early Jimmy bit on the PK? He was already on the ground before the shot was taken.
     
    Buzz Killington repped this.
  9. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't get me wrong, if you would have told me before the season that after nine games we'd be 7-2, I would have been very excited. But these two losses in a row just (to these two teams) look eerily like our August slump is coming a bit early.
     
  10. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's been how he's basically done all his PKs since he's been here, he goes early.
     
  11. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the overall lack of PKs in MLS ever being buried into one or the corners, I'm wondering if an MLS goalkeeper has a better chance just standing still until it's kicked. It seems like Jimmy might have had a better chance at that PK if he just waits on it.
     
  12. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah the PK had some pace on it, but was struck at a good height for Jimmy to get to quickly if he'd waited, it wasn't close to the corner.
     
  13. SportingKCFan

    SportingKCFan Member

    Sep 2, 2010
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Except then we would have 5 MLS Cups.
     
  14. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe it's not an August swoon that we have, but a May swoon, pulled this from the press release, bold is mine: Sporting Kansas City is 25-34-16 all-time in the month of May. Sporting Kansas City has not won a game in the month of May in any of the last three years. The last May win dates back to May 16, 2009 in a 2-0 win at RSL – a span of ten straight May matches without a win.
     
  15. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Another thing, in both losses (against Portland and Montreal) Vermes only used two subs.

    That just blows my mind. Why?!?

    Vermes needs to be doing about 100% better with the lineup. Portland was a text book opportunity to test our depth and we strolled out there with the starting 11 that was fatigued as hell. I simply don't understand not taking these opportunities to get in some playing time for the guys you know you are going to have to use down the stretch.

    And if you are down 0-2, I don't see how the hell you can justify making your second sub in the 79th and hanging on to your third.

    What in the world is Vermes thinking here?
     
  16. BenDover

    BenDover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 4, 2010
    Rio Verde, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was confused about that too. Convey was not doing much and we had Dom Dwyer on the bench. Dwyer has more pace than Convey and has a dead on shot around the box. I though that was going to be a sure thing for a sub at about the 65 minute mark,,,,,,but zilch...
     
  17. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...and the two subs he did make were like-for-like. striker for a striker; d-mid for a d-mid. now, one could argue that those subs were because of fatigue (i haven't actually bothered to look at a match report for the official reason). if so, then you have to ask questions about why we keep playing a style that keeps forcing inflexibility when it comes to sub options.
     
    BenDover repped this.
  18. kopiteinkc

    kopiteinkc Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    Shawnee
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I mentioned this to James (and I think Mike too), when plan A isn't working, then you need a plan B. However, our plan B seemed to be the same as plan A.

    The high pressing energy wasn't there and they looked very vulnerable in the first 20 minutes. Their first goal really deflated the team and to a certain extent the crowd.

    In the second half still down by 1, we need to change our style. It didn't happen. In the final third our service was awful. Speculative balls rather than pinpoint passes was the order of the day. I would have left Sapong in and played two central forwards. Either Sapong and Kamara or Sapong and Bunbury and given their defenders two to worry about instead of one.

    If you would have told me in March we would be 7-2 in early May I would have taken it. But it's time to shake off two losses and get back on the winning track.
     
  19. Jough

    Jough Member+

    Jul 30, 2007
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The most disappointing thing to me wasn't the loss, but the failure to score. Felipe's strike was amazing and not much you can do about the PK call, but I'd be much more okay with this loss if we didn't get shutout at home. That's the more worrying part.

    Anyway, here's some arbitrary player ratings (derived from MLS fantasy stats and normalized to "5" for the average player on the field from both teams and adjusted for time played) from Saturday. Patrice Benier with man of the match for the game. Convey our best player.

    Montreal Impact
    Donovan Rickets 6.7
    Matteo Ferrari 4.4
    Tyson Wahl 5.9
    Nelson Rivas 5.9
    Felipe 7.0
    Davy Arnaud 4.1
    Lamar Neagle 5.2
    Patrice Benier 7.4
    Sinisa Ubiparipovic 4.4
    John Brovsky 5.2
    Hassoun Camara 5.6
    Justin Braun 5.6
    Andrew Wenger 4.1
    Eduardo Sebrango 4.4

    Sporting Kansas City
    Jimmy Nielsen 4.1
    Aurelien Collin 4.8
    Matt Besler 3.7
    Chance Myers 4.8
    Michael Harrington 4.4
    Graham Zusi 5.2
    Roger Espinoza 4.8
    Bobby Convey 6.3
    Julio Cesar 4.1
    Paolo Nagamura 4.1
    Kei Kamara 4.4
    CJ Sapong 4.4
    Teal Bunbry 4.1
     
  20. KopRules

    KopRules Member+

    May 31, 2011
    Beautiful South KC
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    This is exactly what I kept saying.

    Montreal's back four got what it expected, and literally relied upon it. Montreal didnt bunker necessarily, but just kept compact and didn't get strung out, they didn't do much to challenge us and just dared us to fire away. The early goal for them was all the more cherry for their game plan.

    Our first opportunities came in the 15th minute (which was handled by Ricketts after CJ hit it right at him), our second came at the 27th minute (Zusi's bouncer from about 35 yards). Its simple math, if SKC's best offense is to turn you over in your own end, and go from defense to offense quickly, it doesn't take a mastermind to frustrate that puzzle. Hence, plan B. This isn't asking PV to reinvent the wheel.

    PV's subs, as mentioned above, did little to solve Montreal or ask new questions... just more the same. PV's reluctance to do something new, in-game, is perplexing for more reasons than one.

    Ill just mention it bc I havent seen it posted elsewhere, but our corners were beyond piss poor (Zusi's mostly).
     
  21. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 11, 2006
    Olathe, Kansas
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It didn't help that the kick was illegally taken though. Ref should have made him retake it.
     
  22. aletheist

    aletheist Member+

    Nov 17, 2010
    Olathe, Kansas, USA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This has been a very annoying trend over the last several games. Both Zusi and Convey have been hitting most of their corners way too long. I understand the strategy, but every single time?
     
    PezJunkie repped this.
  23. FreeStateSKC

    FreeStateSKC New Member

    Aug 23, 2011
    Lawrence, KS
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The lack of goal scoring is getting a little worrisome. Even when we were winning it seemed like we'd get 1 goal from a set-piece when we could have had 2+ (or 3 goals instead of 5 in the NE game). Lots and lots of shots but nothing that seems very dangerous. CJ and Kei seemed ineffective but most of the midfield played pretty poorly IMO so maybe that can be excused.

    The team is still in a great position and there were always going to be rough patches but I agree that it would be nice to see a few changes to try to spark something. With the hot start and consistent lineups it seems like there's potential for complacency. Hopefully the last 2 results can shake that off.
     
  24. dgb09

    dgb09 Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    Overland Park, KS
    This is where I have concerns about Vermes the manager. For the past two season we have seen him be slow to change in personnel and tactics. And I don't just mean within games, but over a period of games.
    • Two years ago it was the unwillingness to sit Wolff and Jewsbury for Teal and Rocastle (I believe). When he finally did that our fortunes turned, not coincidence.
    • Last year it was a more nuanced tactical move, but still a significant change about 9-10 games into the season. The plan wasn't working and it took until all seemed lost to try another plan.
    This is just a two game skid. It happens. And given our torrid start we can afford to drop some points for the greater cause. But that greater cause must include Vermes recognizing when another team has figured him out and adjusting within that game.
    For instance, CJ as not going to break through against the Montreal center backs. They just sat on him. CJ also wasn't making good runs to get onto through balls (only happened a couple of times, but it was noticeable when it happened). Get Teal on at half and change the plan to do more running onto balls and running at them. See if that breaks anything open. I'm not saying that was the magic code, but it would have been something.
     
  25. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He didn't totally stop, the stutter step is fine as long as you don't come to a complete stop
     

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