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Discussion in 'Brazil' started by YankBastard, Jul 2, 2012.
They just might be.
No, they're just the best in this current era poor of talents.
Only people who don't know nothing about football would have doubts about it, which appears to be your case YankBastard.
You need to back up your claim with evidence/examples, rather than insulting others who ask a viable question.
I don't need to claim nothing in an obvious flamer thread. If you want evidences go ahead and find by yourself on good sites and videos on YT, not this crap of BBC or the majority of the english media.
I have seen highlight after highlight and I'm not convinced. This Spanish team can shred apart any Brasil team in history. Pound-for-pound, they have better players in every position. Even the 1970 WC team.
Why are people responding to an obvious troll? Dude makes a douchebag post on a messageboard and then gets his kicks out of reading the reactions. It's extremely sad/pathetic if you think about why people do this.
Why do you think I'm trolling? I have no reason to troll the Brasil board. It's an good question and I still haven't seen anyone give any type of answer why the old Brazilian teams can match this Spanish team.
The only reason why this Spanish team is good is because of many reasons
1. This team have been playing together since U-17. So they have been playing together for years. They know each other,how each other plays. They played together from U-17,U-20 to know. It is the same team.
2. They almost all play in the same clubs in Spain except Silva and Torres. Most of the Spanish players plays in Real Madrid or Barcelona. So when you have players who played together in the same club for many months in year they get used to each other.
Spain is the best team of this generation. You can't compare one team to another because football changed from 1970 to 2012. I think a better match up would be the Brazil team from the 1990s and early 200s.That team was very solid and when Ronaldo was at his prime he cut defenses apart.
So the Brazilian senior players never played with each other when they were in the youth teams? As for all playing on the same team, you're forgetting Mata, Jordi Alba, Jesus Navas, Llorente, Santi Cazorla, and Negredo. Of course I understand that all of them didn't get huge amounts of playing time.
they mostly have. brazil's youth system is much more organized than it was previously. on top of that, brazil can actually keep its U17 and U20 guys in Brazil. I can't tell you how many previous generations of U17 and U20 guys have been snatched away by European clubs only to fade into obscurity.
not to mention the fact that many current spanish players play together on either madrid or barcelona. it's a huge advantage. the brazil team from 62, for example, was made up basically all santos and botafogo players.
Look at the FACT, based on FIFA rankings of Brazil 12 times as #1 in the last 18years
Yr == Rank
Now Spain needs to catch up with Brazil for 7 more years (since they started from 08 -12)
I think the only logical way to compare this is to list actual numbers. Here is the breakdown
Brazil 1970 WC
Spain 2010 WC
Nothing to take anything away from Spain since they have been the best team for the last 2 years but the numbers above are pretty lopsided.
That's not the comparison that's being made.
Here's the thing, I get everyone's emotional response to this trend. Yeah it sucks to hear the rest of the world go on about how Spain might be the best ever. But if you're going to engage the discussion, I encourage you to do it based on what is being put forward, not by distorting things or producing emotional responses. (I mean this in general, not exclusively as a reply to scabbt22).
Now, the problem here is that it is near-impossible to do.
Any top team today would beat Brazil 1958 or 1970 if you could somehow travel in time and put them on the same field. If you don't think so you're deluding yourself about the improvements made in sports fitness and prep since then. So how do we compare teams? It requires imagination - can we imagine Pelé's soccer-brain today? If he had the benefits of modern fitness and coaching how would he do today?
That's the sort of imaginative exercise I love and it's why I enjoyed The Beautiful Game forum here when I participated regularly. Simply dismissing the idea that Spain might be the best ever team makes me think that the forum here is made up of unimaginative, zealous fans who have trouble questioning their assumptions and get defensive when others propose ideas outside of their comfort zone.
Ivo, why is it bullshit?
Gilmar and NotreDame, this is far from trolling. Unless you think the whole world is trolling Brazil right now, but that's an unhealthy position to take.
PapaDoc - I like where you are going. I agree Spain is the best team of this generation. I would say Brazil of Ronaldo's generation is an easier comparison - the time between those two teams does not make the physical fitness reality a huge factor.
scabbt - as far as I understand the comparison is Spain 2008-2012 (maybe 2014 if they keep winning, I hope not) to Brazil 1970 or Brazil 1958-62 or other generations of Brazil or other nations, not simply one tournament to one tournament. It makes the argument more complicated but more fun. Your comparison was dismissive.
The manner in which he did it was a obvious troll. Either that or he is a moron who doesnt know how to properly/respectively start such a topic on a home board.
No need to compare with Brazil70 (the best ever team in most lists)
Let compare to Brazil in last decade as easier and closer (modern time), with also taking "8years span" as same context:
=========== GP= W= D = L = GF = GA = Pts = Medal
Brazil WC98 == 7 == 4 = 1 = 2 = 14 = 10 = 13 === #2
Brazil copa97== 6 == 6 = 0 = 0 = 22 = 3 = 18 === #1
Brazil conf97== 5 == 4 = 1 = 0 = 14 = 2 = 15 === #1
Brazil copa99== 6 == 6 = 0 = 0 = 17 = 2 = 18 === #1
Brazil WC02 == 7 == 7 = 0 = 0 = 18 = 4 = 21 === #1
TOTAL ------- 31== 27= 2 = 2 = 85 = 21==85
SpainWC06 == 4 == 3 = 0 = 1 = =9 = 4 = 9 === #9
Spain Eu08 == 6 == 5 = 1 = 0 = 15 = 3 = 16 === #1
Spain conf09==5 == 4= 0 = 1 = 11 = 4 = 12 === #3
Spain Eu12 == 6 == 4 = 2 = 0 = 12 = 1 = 14 === #1
SpainWC10 == 7 == 6 = 0 = 1 = =8 = 2 = 18 === #1
TOTAL -------28==22= 3 = 3 = 55 = 13= 69
So overall(Brazil 96-02 > Spain 06-12)
Brazil won 4.75/5 trophies > Spain 3.5/5
Brazil got 85 points/31games > Spain 69points/29games
Brazil scored 85goals/31 > Spain55/28
Well' wait to see how Spain would do in next Olympic12, and we'll add Brazil Olympic96 to the table ...
Sorry but this is typical Euro babble. It is simply impossible to compare the two teams. Different era different strategies different level of competition.
For me Brazil 1970 was the best of all times. Brazil of 1982 the 2nd best.
Here are some more facts the Euros will "love":
Until the Bosman ruling in the early nineties, South America won most Intertoto Championships by (Euro club champion VS South American Club chamions)
Only after the Bosman ruling (which allowed more foreigners in the Euro leagues) did the wins become more balanced.