Sochaux The World: The Davies Saga 3

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Logically, this situation seems fairly cut and dried. He fell short in his comeback and isn't ready for international soccer.
But, somehow, it doesn't seem to add up. Bob saying it was a last minute decision due to Sochaux. Sochaux kicking the buck back to Bob. It isn't safe for him to train with the USNT, but he's in full training with Sochaux? I don't see the danger in bringing him to NJ and getting a good look at him in person. If he wasn't ready, it would be obvious. Cut him then, and there's no controversy. And to a degree I feel he earned a spot in the 30 through his heroic efforts to get to the shape he's in now.

What really kills me is that I would wager a large sum that he is more fit right now than Brian Ching.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

I know this is the internet, I am pretty sure I saw Ching play last night.
.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

How'd he look?

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

He looked good enough, that if you were here beside me, I would be asking you for the coin.
All kidding aside, nobody really knows how Charlie looks (of course, Charlie per usual thinks he's probably better than ever). Again, personally, I believe if there was a chance he would be better than Exhibit A, B and C he would be in the camp. I suspect Bob may be more committed to winning, than people on the internet talking about wagering large sums of money.

The question that begs to be asked is "Why keep Charlie down on the farm, if in fact he is or may be ready to go?" So in effect, "Why the conspiracy?"

Any answer would not make sense, other than he is not ready.

And, I am sure we have a friend here ready to speculate. . . .

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

They can't tie Bob Bradley's hands, but not clearing him sure put additional hurdles in the way. I'm pretty confident that Bob would always do what he thinks is in the best interest of the team, so I'm not going to second guess the decision. And Bob is not the type of guy to lie to Charlie in order to deflect blame, so to me the fact that Charlie has spoken out against Sochaux (and not Bob or the USMNT/USSF) is pretty telling.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

It's that that makes it so fishy. Because the club has no recourse. Cut and dried he belongs to the national team after May 16. Absolutely nothing is stopping the USSF from bringing him over and running him through any test they want to throw at him. And yet they're making Sochaux the bad guy to Davies, the team, and the fans, while implying they agree with Sochaux's decision. It just comes across as weaselly, whatever the intention. Probably their idea of keeping team unity, but awfully clumsy.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

As per Carlisle's articles on Soccernet :

Bradley sez on May, 11:

But in his subsequent article, Jeff elaborates :

So, it seems that Sochaux threatened to contest the medical clearance.

However ... Sochaux then said this dated May, 12th:

http://www.fcsochaux.fr/en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1570&Itemid=106

Official Statement
Published at : Wednesday, 12 May 2010 | communiqué | © fcsochaux.fr |

So, the day after the 30-man roster was named, Sochaux retreated and indicated that any decision about Davies' participation in the US training or matches would be solely up to the USSF.

And there you have it.

My take is that the French bluffed, Bob fell for it, then named a full 30-man roster, which allowed him no opportunity to add Charlie in case the situation changed.

The Sochaux management probably counted precisely on that.

It was weasely on their part and dumb on Bob's.

Unless Herc Gomez turns into another Geoffrey Hurst and Eddie Johnson into another Eusebio.

PS. "Work stoppage" means "off season". The club isn't requiring its players to return until June, 24th, thus giving them a 40 day vacation period.

Edit : According to Sochaux, the famed US medical staffers visited the club's training ground at the end of April. At that point, Charlie had fully trained for only a week. Maybe, just maybe, he is in a better shape now than he was then.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Again, another excellent interpretation. I think sidefootsitter has laid it out pretty clearly. Bob bought Sochaux's bluff. The victim? Davies, the USMNT, and the fans. In the end, the victim may end up being Bob Bradley....

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

I'm not sure what happened. What I am sure of is that this "Sochaux medical clearance" is 100% BS. Sochaux has no authority in this situation. They have no control over what Davies does or over what the NT wants to do.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Why are you so sure about that? Reporters covering it, including Greg Selzer who usually gets stuff right, aren't nearly so clear on the matter.

And why is everybody having such a hard time believing that the most likely explanation is that Davies isn't sufficiently recovered that Bradley felt comfortable bringing him into camp? Sure, there could be other explanations, but that one makes the most sense for a whole lot of reasons.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Oh, I'm not pushing any conspiracy theories. The simplest explanation is that Davies just isn't ready.

What I am taking issue with is the idea that Sochaux "withheld medical clearance" and that was that. I don't think that's possible. It's certainly possible that Sochaux said "we don't think he's ready" and the USSF staff verified it or took their word for it.

However, if Bradley really wanted Davies in camp, there's nothing Sochaux could do to stop that from happening. It's possible that Sochaux could have lied or bluffed, but the reality is that this was Bradley's decision.

I find the blame directed at Sochaux to be strange. They have no say on the matter. If it is a great injustice that Davies was not called in (and I don't think it necessarily is), that's on Bradley/USSF, not Sochaux.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

The USSF had trainers visit Sochaux and talk to Davies regularly.

Well, at least some knowledgeable people following the story do think that Sochaux had a substantial say in this. Maybe they're right, maybe not. But the situation is actually fairly confusing. For example, here's what they're saying over at No Short Corners:

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Is this a fact? Does the end of the season mean the player is released from his club and free to join the national team under any circumstances? I haven't seen anything in the rules that addresses the end of the season wrt playing for a national team.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

I want to believe that, but...

Bradley in the ESPN interview specifically said "we'll get a good look at him in our camp." If Bradley already knew CD wasn't going to make it why say that? Maybe to keep hope alive for CD or so he could tell CD himself first instead of him hearing it in the interview? Ok, but in that case I would've expected Bradley to say something more like "we're still evaluating Charlie and if we select him we'll get a good look at him in camp," but he didn't. He said we would get a good look at him in camp.

I think Sochaux played hardball and Bradley decided it wasn't worth it to fight for CD's inclusion in camp - possibly because he already felt that the chance of CD proving his fitness in camp wasn't good based on Sochaux's opinion and his staff's opinions.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Yeah,I think ebbro's correct here.Repped.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

I agree. Also rep.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

It's the "under any circumstances" that's not clear. Goff said clubs couldn't hold players after that except for a Champions League final. Bradley told Davies that the main issue was Sochaux's medical clearance. Sochaux said, no matter what they said or did, the USSF could have called Charlie in to take a look. Finally, Selzer said there were insurance issues if Bradley did that.

Combine all that with posters' speculation that Bradley didn't want Davies in camp as a distraction, and didn't want to call him in if he might not succeed there, and nobody wanting to be blamed for not giving Charlie every possible chance, and it makes messy sense. Finally though, it seems both USSF and Sochaux didn't give Charlie every possible chance, playing their odds, and are not being completely up front about it.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

There's another twist to the story :

As I posted on the USMNT injury thread, this is a rough dateline.

With minor edits:

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

There's certainly nothing in the FIFA regulations that gives a club any grounds for not releasing a player or preventing them from playing for their national team in an official tournament. Whether there are informal rules regarding injured players or insurance issues may be another matter though.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

I wouldn't say Sochaux denied that they refused to provide medical clearance - under the rules the decision to call in Charlie is with the US whether Sochaux provides medical clearance or not, so they are correct in what they said. It's just with them not giving medical clearance it forces the US to jump through hoops they didn't want to jump through.

Are you sure work stoppage means off season? The statement says "[Charlie Davies] will be in a work stoppage situation until June 24."

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

I shouldn't have said under any circumstances. National teams still have to get permission for clubs to release players during the WC even though they are in the off season is what I'm getting at. If just being in the off season means players can do what they want, that wouldn't be the case. I guess Goff knows - there must be some note that says the specific dates wrt releasing players for the 2010 WC, but the regs just say release is required 14 days before an int'l tournament.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

If Goff was right, then clubs don't even have the option to hold on to players for games after May 16, excepting the CL final.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Found it. It's in the regs specific to the 2010 WC (Section 26). It's intended to prevent burn out. Is it new for this WC?

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/56/42/69/fifawcsouthafrica2010inhalt_e.pdf

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

That's not my interpretation of this.

They're backpedaling here not because they have any regard for the US but because their own fans are justifiably angry with the club management for (allegedly) denying Charlie this opportunity.

So, what they're saying is, "Don't be blaming us. It's entirely a USSF decision".

Yes. It's in broken English ... and, if not in broken, then not in the accepted US sport lingo.

Their schedule ends on the 15th and they're off for 40 days.

With 20 teams/38 game schedule, the French season starts on August, 7.

June, 24th is when the players are expected to report for a 6-week preseason.

Obviously, those tied with the WC will have to have their vacations begin after the end of their games there.

If the US goes into the knock-out stage on June, 26-27th, then Davies would have either a very short vacation or would report just in time for the season to start.

The club obviously was none too pleased with this potential schedule conflict either.

 

Re: Sochaux Sad: The Davies Saga 3

Look, very selfishly, I would have liked to have seen Charlie back in the starting lineup as soon as he (grin) said he was ready. Most people know that things don't quite work that way.
So what does Schaux have to do to be completely "up front about it?"

Look below for what they actually said on April 22.

MLS talk on April 22

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/charlie-davies-wont-return-to-ligue-1-this-season/8751

Charlie Davies hopes of making the World Cup roster took a significant hit today, when his club announced that he will not feature in a Ligue 1 match this season.

“He won’t play again this season in Ligue 1,” Sochaux president Alexandre Lacombe told local paper Est-Republicain on Thursday. “He is fine and that is the main thing. Since leaving his wheelchair, he has gone through a lot to get fit again. But it’s a bit early to say when he will play again.”

He has returned to training, but the progress hasn’t been as good as team officials would like.

“It’s been very hard for Charlie, as every time we up the workload, he gets very tired,” Sochaux coach Francis Gillot told L’Equipe.

Now, it’s still possible for Bob Bradley to select him for the World Cup provisional roster early next month, work him out and judge him fit enough to make the trip.

But it’s hard to imagine that happening, especially in light of the recent high form of guys like Edson Buddle and Herculez Gomez.

This is entirely one poster's spin , and a notorious Bradley basher , on what Charlie (whose judgement is often suspect) said the conversation came down like. There may be room for some other interpretations.

Some might suggest this was a mistake. A poster, earlier mentioned he should keep his mouth shut, remember. Perhaps, a bit more could have been learned last October. I will never forget the class and dignity Evander Holyfield showed after being treated unfairly in the gold medal bout at the Olympics.

Here is the only thing we have heard from Bob:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-...lie-davies-not-included-roster?cc=5901&ver=us

"[The Davies decision] has been incredibly difficult," U.S. manager Bob Bradley said in a broadcast interview with ESPN on Tuesday. "Charlie has shown so much heart in his work to get back from his injuries. We've monitored all of his workouts, we've had people [in France], we've observed him, and he remained part of the consideration right up until yesterday.

"In the end of it, we also had information from his club, whereby he hadn't been given full medical clearance, and therefore was not given a full release to join the camp. And so when we put that together with everything, we just felt that right now, Charlie, it's in his best interest to continue his rehab and continue so that he can get back to the level he was playing last year before the accident."