You're kidding right? My daughter is in club for the competition. If her grades fall, she will be out of club soccer. I don't need some high school coach to tell her that. That is my job as a parent. In addition, the club coaches also check on the kids grades, and if they are failing they won't play. How can learning to balance school, club soccer, and other school and personal tasks not make her a better student athlete? You seem to really dislike club soccer for some reason. Like anything in life, what you put in directly equates to what you get out.
What if I told you what I quoted was from a top level college coach. What would your reaction be blue?? Curious?
Not really. I know several coaches as well. Any child can get exposure through club or school. If they are good enough, they will get an opportunity. In my experience, club will make for a better player.
haha--not really ok---Club gets you better is not the argument--It has nothing to do with what I quoted--
Not sure what you are on about with supporting my community, my kids friends and so on but I also help the Dir of Soccer for our community club and have coached at least 1 team (usually) 2 teams for them for the last 7 years. If that is not good enough and I am required to also have my kid in there then I frankly don't know what else to tell you.
I will admit I am very down on high school soccer at this moment. In this area – and I think my complaints are only valid for this area- high school soccer has so many problems. From my observation, it is not a good environment for high level teen soccer players. If you are a player from a club that is big enough and good enough to have an alternative program to high school soccer, you should probably take advantage of it. Leadership opportunities? Hah! You must be kidding. Elite players have to tone down their competitive nature and expectations when they play high school or else they risk alienating their classmates. I have seen so many of them simply “show-up, shut-up, and play” while playing high school. The same player in their club environment would be communicating and organizing their team. On the club side, the better players would be expected to lead their teams while on the high school side they have to be careful not to embarrass the upperclassmen. There is a very real possibility of serious injury because of the mismatch in playing ability and expectations of the players. If you don’t know this, then you don’t know very much about soccer at the higher levels. Some percentage of players, (25 – 30 percent?) don’t know how to fairly challenge for the ball. Bad things happen when those big bodies that don’t know how to tackle start flying around. The same thing sometimes happens during club play, but it is not the norm as it is in high school. And way too many of the high school referees don’t know enough about the game to keep the players safe. IMHO the high schools need to hire more ethnic referees who know the rules but also know the game. A strange problem around here is that some of the high school programs are essentially run by coaches whose primary responsibility is to their wannabe local clubs. Younger players from the elite clubs are considered outsiders so those players eventually migrate to their club’s program instead of the high school program. This does not help the overall level of play. More high school coaches who are both good coaches and also teachers or employees of the school would help this problem. On the bright side, IMHO, I don’t think 12 weeks of crappy soccer is going to hurt anyone. I was actually quite surprised that my kid who played grade-level high school soccer had no problem adjusting to the speed of play once club started. Often the coaching practice plans between club and high school are similar, just the level of play is different. IMHO, I think it is good for a player to understand the tactical considerations of playing for different coaches and under different systems. They will need it for ODP anyway. And if a player is not getting the specific technical coaching they need at high school, they need to work on their own. The social aspects of high school soccer can be the overriding consideration. A high-schooler gets to share what they do best with their friends and classmates. Much of my high-schooler’s grade-level soccer team hung around together all day on the weekends. Some social aspects are less attractive. One parent told me about a third of the varsity team are serious potheads. The captain was suspended during the season for marijuana use and that group of them showed up for the team banquet stoned. However, let’s not kid ourselves that high school soccer prepares a soccer player for top level D1 soccer. Perhaps it does for D2 or D3. I don’t know since I don’t know anything about that level of play. Top 40 D1 programs on the girls and the boys side favor players from elite clubs. College coaches know those players have been taught a focus and a discipline which is also necessary at the top college level but simply does not exist in high school soccer. Top clubs teach players, similar to college, that there are a dozen players ready to take their spot if they lose focus on the field, off the field, or while traveling, whether during the season or the off-season. The good clubs teach their players from an early age how to travel and play instead of staying up all night or running up and down the hotel hallways chasing people with the fire extinguisher. Sometimes college coaches make sure they have enough players from those top clubs to model the discipline necessary to excel at the highest level. They don’t want to be teaching something the player should already know. The best way to prepare for top level college play is to prove you have the discipline and focus to excel at an elite club. In this area, high school soccer is a poor substitute.
This is where you expose your lack of experience and knowledge for soccer. College coaches of course support and appreciate club soccer. All levels of college coaches! College coaches run there own programs and don't need to model there programs after any club. The part that kills me is that you separate D1 and the other levels. High school sucks for D1 but its ok for all other levels. Do you know that there are D1 players that couldn't start on some D3 schools? Do you know there are many players that play D2 and 3 that could start at major D1 schools... Much about the divisions has to do with more then soccer. COST - Major are of Study - Location -Size of School -Coach and Players- all of these and more go into the decision making process for the educated student athlete! You really think you have all of this figured out. Your arrogance towards everything not associate with your club really shines. Your arrogance towards high school soccer and anything but D1 soccer really comes out strong. Your club has done a great job brainwashing you that they are king and all the others are just here to beat on. No one is here to debate the benefits of club soccer or that if a player whats to develop to their fullest they need to play for good coaches. The argument is playing high school and taking 3 months off from your club to experience many aspects of the game and life club cannot provide. But when you read the above you see by what I highlighted not a open minded view but the typical club is everything attitude that club coaches are telling there players and parents. The parents are so quick to take that club coaches word as the truth. You would think that if you really are not educated in a certain arena that you would talk to people who have experience before jumping on their money making self righteous band wagon.
My point is that a good player - even a great player can be turned into crap with poor coaches - or at best, a lack of consistant training. Quote by Volk SoccerBS well I know you have worked with very average players. How many high school age players have you worked with? How many years of working with these players has given you the knowledge to state that above comment? 3 Years of clinics which have all been succesful. By VoLK 3 years of clinics is very little experience! Your point that in 3 months a player is going to take a nose dive and go from being a soccer player to unable to walk is just plain reticules. You should be embarrassed that you would use such a false statement to try and prove your opinion!
I'd like to chime in as someone from a relatively strong soccer state (NJ). Yes, everyone knows that HS soccer sux compared to top club teams in the same age group. The top HS teams will scrimmage against top club teams, and it will usually be a blowout (not always, interestingly enough). My son wants to play for his town. Our state allows that. Even USSDA allows players to play on their HS team, though they ban players from state ODP. I do believe he will have a chance for leadership, and that alienating his classmates is not an issue. He already alienates his classmates because he is in honors classes in MS. He was laughing the other day about being called a geek. He was banned from recess kickball in grammar school by teachers because he "kicked too hard". Maybe y'all have children who have never had a bad coach, or have never had bad teammates. My son worked his way up from a low level team, to a higher level team, to an elite team, and had to change due to a bad coach. He has had coaches swear at him, make him practice in the snow, scream at teammates, and sit him for entire games. He has had players cleat him bad enough to nearly make it impossible for me to have grandchildren. He has had teammates with serious broken bones and concussions. I don't think the "danger" of HS soccer will be any more than the "danger" of club soccer - in the case of club soccer, coaches are paid $$$$ to win, and sometimes players are pushed to foul. In HS soccer, the majority of teams play to play, and a 0-15 coach will make the same money as a 15-0 coach. When your child has already played against players 1 foot taller and 75 lbs. on him, for years, with parents screaming "Get Number 7!", I don't think HS ball will be something he is afraid of. That big HS player who doesn't know soccer that well still has to catch him, and it was much more likely he would be caught playing against top ten club teams that select the biggest goons in their tri-state area.
I have 7 years of both Rec and competitive - with a USSF D and C lisence. I also played college as well. You asked my experience in coaching high school and I stated 3 years via clinics. I highly doubt you have as much exposure as a coach then I - so dignifying you opinion really makes no sense at all - especially when your argument holds no water. You sound like a parent scorned through your kid who was out-played by quality club players.
But Volk, what you say indicates that an injury lasting several months should have the same effect! That's probably why people are doubting you, things happen and some players will have no or poor training for months. My son's coach has an A license and he still makes mistakes and bad judgments once in a while (and we have parents who played pro soccer in other countries who see that). Not all players that have great training and teammates improve, and not all players that have poor or no training get worse. The key to HS soccer for an elite player is to see what it is and not expect more. Any HS-age elite player worth his salt will understand the game enough to know that.
People doubting me - what soccerbs??? He's more interested in credentials then actual debate. That said perhaps we're off on a tangent here - or I was not clear. All I am saying is that playing Club Soccer for a highly skilled player is more beneficial then High School for a multitude of reasons. In our region most of the Coaches at HS are volunteer - a Math Teacher who is collecting an additional check. While that may be a positive thing if you're swinging a tennis racket, it's an entirely different issue for a team based sport in which there is far more facets within and thusly more experience required. I have no problem with anyone playing HS soccer - including my own kids. But all things considered if an elite player/parent asked my opinion and the club was right, I would say club. But those are few and far between - I'm talking the sorts who go on to college and play the game. That being said I have seen kids leave my club - and my daughters club and return to Rec based soccer - mostly due to financial reasons or a lack of commitment that the player/parent is willing to put up. In nearly all these instances the player goes back to their old habits - primarily because the coach is a stick and ball fella who doesn't put the player in the right position to start off... I've also seen this happen with a few U12 A players from last season who wanted to see if the grass was greener and ended up on nearby clubs playing in A/B and B divisions.
It does depend on the region and on specific schools. In the Houston area you may get stuck with an assistant football coach that is looking for the extra money (similar to what you mention) - but it is more likely these days that they at least played soccer in college. And it can easily be much better - my son's coach played in college and professionally. Many elite kids in the Houston area - who go on to play both college and/or professionally - play both club and HS. I do think the club training is better technically, but many kids really enjoy the HS experience (and also get decent training). Lastly . . . for kids who play HS and club . . . they may have increased their odds of getting a college coach interested; the club trainer and HS coach likely have different connections with different college coaches. Both my son's club/HS trainer/coach brought different perspectives to the recruiting process and different connections - but both did a great job helping my son find his path. Anyway - it doesn't have to be a one or the other, although many people present it that way. For some players only HS or only club is the right way - but doing both works for many.
Whoa, I think I touched a nerve. ;- ) I am not a hater, but as I mentioned, I am very disappointed in high school soccer in this large city. Give me a year or two years and I could become a hater. Yes, I am a former club coach who is now a parent. I always made sure my players played clean so I am a little annoyed when I see dangerous play and referees who don’t protect the players. I don’t know why this area doesn’t find decent high school refs. Many of the referees at the club level are excellent, even if some of them don’t speak English very well. I am originally from another state and I suspect/hope high school soccer is better in that area. I know many of the high school coaches from that state and they are excellent. Many of them move between high school and the top clubs and ODP. I don’t think I saw any lack of integrity in how those coaches handled conflicts of interest. Again, I stand by what I said about on-the-field leadership. The national pool players I know don’t play high school. The regional team players I know are the ones I am talking about. I could name names, but that is frowned upon here. Perhaps I am not a quality coach, but I know dangerous play when I see it. Since we are in a spitting contest on this one, I will save the insults. Yes good players know from training and experience how to avoid or soften hard challenges – even I can do that ;- ). The problem is when they get hit by a dangerous challenge when they are not expecting it because nobody in their right mind would make that challenge such as a tackle from behind while they are holding the ball or the goalkeeper who gets two-footed in the hands. This is a problem with adult soccer sometimes as you know but we are adults. What can you do about this problem? Tell your player not to go into 50-50 challenges or not to hold the ball in the penalty area looking for a foul? We can go around in circles on this one but does anyone have any evidence ,even anecdotally evidence on this? Are there more injuries during a 3-month high school season than a 3-month development academy season? Anyone have an opinion on that? Regarding the social aspects. I have to rely on what the other more experienced parent, a high school counselor, said about the chronic marijuana use by a large fraction of the older team members. I was at a soccer banquet and while I did not go around making an exact count, about a quarter or more of the boys varsity team was stoned. It made for a very weird environment. And yes, one of the team captains, as voted on by the players, was suspended for marijuana use during the season. My opinion is if you can’t put down the weed long enough to captain the team, either being team captain is not important to you or you have a drug problem. The girl’s banquet is later in the year. As mention, I don’t know anything about D2 or D3 soccer since there was not any playing intercollegiate soccer in our area. On second thought, there is s D2 school in another state a couple of hundred miles from where I coached. They probably could have won the D1 championship as well that year but I don’t know the coaches and I can’t speculate about their opinions. Most of the high school coaches I know personally are great, however, they are EX-high school coaches. One guy, who is such a quality person and player, I wish he was still coaching high school, but he started to focus more on building his club. There is one from another state who coaches a perennial high school champion team who is great. He is an A-licensed coach who knows a lot about soccer at all levels and can and has coached girls and boys from toddlers to collegians. He has taught me a lot. Some of the club coaches I am acquainted with are awful. Good players you would assume, but below average coaches with the character development of a spoiled adolescent. Of course, some of those are entrenched at the local high school. Some of the high school grade level coaches in the same program are good soccer coaches and even better as human beings. They teach at the school also and really do bring honor on the profession of education. I don’t know why the head coach doesn’t try to move out the bad apples in the coaching staff and why he doesn’t consider character when he picks the players. I saw some nice things watching high school soccer at different levels this year – it wasn’t all bad. However, talk about disappointed. In order of importance, some of the things that disappointed me were: 1. The lack of character of some of the coaches in the program. Ironically, those coaches are club coaches also coaching high school. It was particularly disappointing since the athletic director rambles on and on about character so he comes off as quite the hypocrite. On this topic, I plead guilty to being incredibly naïve for believing the rhetoric of the athletic director, the school handbook, and administrators. 2. The number of potheads at the older levels. I don’t mean kids who are recreational drug users, I mean those who act and dress as part of the subculture. 3. Poor refereeing that bordered on the bizarre. The biggest problem with high school soccer is there is no choice in the matter. With the club environment you get to find the best match for your player. At the high school level, it is the luck of the draw. Choice is usually best. What is also bad are clubs that do not let their players play high school soccer if they want.
"Whoa, I think I touched a nerve. ;- )" Welcome to the biggest club on Big Soccer. Please take a number. And thanks for refraining from name calling, grandiose character assaults, bold type and exclamation points.
I am beginning to think we are very lucky to be in a state where you can choose whether your child plays both club and HS or only one. I do want to mention that attendance and commitment can become issues, and not just for soccer. So many coaches and teachers are draconian in their attendance requirements that parent and player choices become almost impossible. For example, my son is quitting school band when he goes to HS next year because they require 100% attendance at athletic games and concerts. He is a soloist in the top MS band, but literally can't waste one period out of eight, AND pull-out lessons twice per week, AND weekend and evening commitments, mostly for a low-level marching band experience. They will not allow him to join the top HS band if he doesn't make the initial commitment to a whole host of activities that will affect his schoolwork and outside sports. It is not really fair to pit state-level soccer versus HS marching band, especially for students in pre-college programs.
Welcome to amateur sports. There are some great coaches, lots of mediocre coaches and some really bad coaches. Good parenting, good role models and a willingness to travel to get exposed to the best is key.
My son started HS this year and we even insisted he play Freshman instead of trying out for Varsity since he came from a small feeder school and ended up making a lot of new friends. There were also a lot of girls who would come to the home games that sure don't go to the club game. He even said their were more at his games than the varsity. But besides the social aspects, the coach spent the season watching from the bench and doing wholesale substitutions every 15 minutes no matter the game situation. No soccer was taught in practice, and the level of play was worse than some rec leagues and he got quite frustrated and ended up just looking for people to foul. Now back to playing club indoors and soon outdoors and tournaments, he quickly returned to form and especially looking forward to getting back outside and 80 minute games against good competition. So they can benefit from both, but it can be a frustrating experience for these kids when they get to HS if the coaches are poor or worse, just don't care.
So if your son plays club 9 months a year and steps away for 3 to play high school, sound like a win win to me. Sounds like he had a great time with his classmates!! good for him!!
Except that the "great time" had absolutely nothing to do with soccer. Would have had the same great time hanging out at the local pizza parlor and wouldn't have to deal with the frustration of his particular high school soccer program.
It had nothing to do with soccer?? Well yes it did! Soccer was the game that brought him and his friends together. The High School soccer program gave them the opportunity to hang around together -play and have fun. So actually it had alot to do with soccer. His son got to step away from club and experience a new setting. It provided his son a new view of the game and coaching. De Kromme -Let me guess your kid is going to be a PRO! Your kid is going to be an all american?? SO he is going to play every day and never step away from club? Or are you a club coach with the all the answers??? If you are the club coach put it in writing!!! Make a contract with a kid stating he will get a full ride playing under you at the end of his senior year!! Put it in writing that you will provide all the social aspects of a childhood for that player!Tell Him you will provide him with memories-and friendships that will last forever!! Can you provide those things and guarantee them??
Play and have fun? Did you read the post, didn't sound like the soccer was much fun. He ran around "looking for people to foul." Nice experience. But as long as the mods are allowing you (specifically, for some reason that can't be fathomed) continuous privelege to always make things personal, here goes: You are quite an angry little man, an interwebs tough guy that we all read about and chuckle about. Quit projecting your insecurities on other folks. Now yellow care me, ref, so you can prove the second foul is always the one that gets caught and punished.
