"So tell me about your week": The Fall 2012 discussion thread

Congratulations I think it is a good move. If your winning half your games in a better dIv your are still doing very good. Always try to build on the game that your already playing.

Now that we are just talking soccer and not that other thing it is better no?

 

You're a good poster outside of any politics thread. That is why you haven't been placed on the ignore list.

 

My first post in this thread... I have a boys high school team in a lower-level private school league. We started out the league season with two one-goal losses to above average, but not top notch, sides. The past two games, something just clicked. We beat a weak team 6-0, only notable since our pre-season friendlies against weak teams did not yield that many goals. Then, we played a team about the equal of the two teams we lost to and won 3-1. Besides winning the game, we also demonstrated a marked improvement in how we supported the ball offensively, how cohesive our play was between lines, and consistent our communication was on both attack and defense. Next week, we have games on back-to-back days, on the road against a solid team (day 1) and home against the league's top team (day 2). We have been playing a fairly attacking 4-4-2. Our midfield uses true outside midfielders, and both central mids like to push up when we get a sustained possession of the ball. Also, my right fullback is a physical specimen who can overlap all game without a rest. My concern is that playing this style against strong opposition on back-to-back days is next to impossible. I would love to work on a defensive 4-2-3-1 system or something similar to use for at least part of both games to limit our exposure defensively and to keep the team from getting too worn out by the end of the second game. However, I am also concerned about going away from a system that has worked so well. Any thoughts on this conundrum?

 

Thanks for the reply. Neglected to mention in my original post, I have an extremely short bench. Plenty of players on the team, but somewhere around player 14 or 15 there is a major drop-off. The private school where I coach essentially has a no-cut policy, so we have 25 Varsity players and 24 J.V. players. In the pair of one-goal losses, I substituted liberally, and the overall level of play definitely took a hit. In the recent 3-1 win, I was much stingier with playing time. This hurts me on a personal level, as I was the kid in high school playing zero to ten minutes per game (figured it out a bit more playing intramurals and such in college), but when I'm coaching Varsity the result is the thing, to a certain degree anyways. When I am coaching youth teams I sub much differently.

 

There are many things you could do, but like Elessar78 would not advise changing your system away from the 442. The 442 defending in two lines of 4 behind the ball is a very solid defensive formation.

What choice you make should consider what you want to teach them next.

If you want to change something, what I would suggest is that you alter your organization of the 442 for the day 2 match. Organize for a counter-attacking style of play. For instance adjust the line of confrontation.

Or instead of changing the style of play, change your defensive organization to put more players behind the ball (8 players instead of 6 for instance). If you are not already using 2 lines of 4, this might be a good time to introduce it. If you are already defending with 8 behind the ball, you could switch to 4411 and put 9 players behind the ball (with intelligent defending makes it harder for opponents to find space between your lines).

Or you could change your midfield organization to have 1 or 2 defensive mids. a 4132, 4312 or 42211 could be taught as a 442 variation, yet the last two play like a 433 (3 CM to control the center) and 4231 respectively. Introducing a DM might allow you to rest one of your starting CM's without too much dropoff in effectiveness. Depends on your bench of course.

Lastly you can simply change players around and keep the same system. As you know different players will play the same position differently so a few changes can result in different team play. What struck me was your description of the right back. You could move him to right mid and if your bench is strong rest the regular right mid. Or you could have them swap positions for part of the match without having to make a substitution. Take advanatage of the RB's endurance while giving him shorter runs to get into the attack. If he is tired for game 2, he can stay back more and that would not hurt if you want him to play more conservatively in game 2 anyway.

One warning, I haven't tried any of this. I like the 433 I am just brainstorming here.

Please let us know afterwards how it worked out for you. Good luck.

 

The CDC has a bunch of FREE stuff for coaches/players/parents about concussions. It comes in both English and Spanish as well. There are various pamphlets relating to each person involved be it how the coach should view the injury to how the player views it to how the parents react and what they should do. Those of you who are clipboard freaks, they've got one with a basic concussion test printed on the back. Just don't expect it to be a dry erase board...

 

Thanks! Actually I have this already. Our school district has a very good concussion management system in place including training for the coaches and baseline cognitive testing for the athletes and a step by step return to activity plan. It is the best around I think. We have been very proactive with this.

As an update, the injured player spent three days in the hospital before returning home where he is resting. He will not return to school for at least a few weeks. The school is actually providing a tutor to determine how much he can do for now. More than anything right now he needs rest, physical and mental. Physically he is still a little swollen and has some bruising in his face. The docs may decide to do some reconstructive surgery if the dent is too noticable. Right now we can't tell because of the swelling. Poor kid. Seems like he is doing ok though other than some pretty nasty headaches.

Thanks again for the info. It's good stuff and worth sharing! Rep to you.

 

Heh, the game is not until next Thursday, but at training today I taught a 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-3 formation. We were able to scout the team we are playing in the first game, and they are actually a good deal stronger than we thought. They are very strong up the middle of the pitch in a 3-1-4-2 system, so I decided to add a holding midfielder in between the lines to make sure we never get caught numbers down against their center mids and central strikers. We'll see how it goes...

 

Mb43

How a teams formation looks on attack does not mean it will look like that when you lose the ball.

Also when you bring numbers back to defend. Why not also work with two or three player on a quick counter and try to strike right away on the opponent right after you win the ball. If you can't make that first pass by tge third pass. Then play a possession game.

To make a counter work you need space, speed, skill and practice.

 

Today my daughter and my Grandson Henry will be getting in from Berlin Germany. I can't wait to see him. I was going to Germany to see him next week and now I don't have to.

It should be a lot of fun. I love when my grandson and my grand daughter fight for toys then my older grand daughter try to referee them.

 

Literally or figuratively?

I LOVED Berlin when I was there for the Women's World Cup. Grand city.

 

Are you sure she is the referee? Maybe she is a coach like her grandfather

 

That sounds promising. If they scouted you too, that could surprise them.

 

With regards to defending shape differing from attacking shape -- hence 4141/4123. The outside midfielders will play almost as true wingers on attack. Also, the roles of the two center midfielders differ; one is more of a passer and one more of a runner/tackler. We work on counter attacks all the time. Most of our goals are 2 passes or less. As far as possessing the ball goes... very tough on most high school soccer fields!!

 

My daughters apartment house over looks the canal. I just got an apartment three houses away. It was a factory that went out of business. The good news is it has an elevator where the other buildings don't have one. I have a friend who is furnishing it for me. It is going to be my spring and summer home.the canal has tour boats, it has floating restaurants. Can even moor a boat there during the warm months. So I will being seeing a lot of Henry. I think it is my job to teach him bad English.

 

Did you go to the Berlin zoo? They have these big birds there that can go anywhere they like. But they stay because they feed them fish. You can sit on a park bench there and be right next to them.

Funny thing everyone their keeps offering me beers. I can't drink beer anything else yes, but not beer.

 

Got an 0-3 team. Effort and attitude were good this week. Just a couple of mental lapses (mostly playing the ball straight into the center from goal kicks).

So I think we're making progress. Just hope the players don't get too down.

 

3rd grade girls. 0-3. Some of the girls get it and give good effort, a couple don't have a clue

 

On a more general note: Should I take the tactical advice of a coaching video that directly contradicts the curriculum? (Which, in fairness, came out later and doesn't explain why we're supposed to play a 2-3-1 in 7v7?)

http://www.sportsmyriad.com/2012/09/single-digit-soccer-flunk-the-2-3-1/

 

The 1231 is intended to teach off the ball movement. You have a pair of CB's, two flankers, a CM, and a forward. You basically have 5 players in a circle around the CM. It is all about triangles, but the players have to move around to form the triangles. Think of the different positions as circuit training for your players. The system allows you to teach the basics of team tactics. If they can play the Keeper, CB, flanker, CM and forward positions in this system, then they know enough basic tactics to play any position in any future system.

Complaining that it involves too much running is silly in my mind. Especially with unrestricted substitutions in youth matches. Especially if both teams play 1231. The outside mids should not have to run as much as you might think, if the forward is mobile and if you keep the match on a reasonable sized field and if the opponents only have 1 flanker per side too.

 

His whole presentation is based on a view of soccer that divides sides into attackers and defenders. And his intention is to teach the kids that lesson. It is bad tactics and bad for development. (Bad for development because the kids are using half of their skills when playing and it makes transistions too easy compared to the senior game).

Why do I say this? Because he starts with the assumption that his team must defend the entire width of the field and therefore must have a line of three across the field. Then he assumes that the line of confrontation begins with the last line. Therefore he says you have to have a line of 3 defenders and he doesn't care what you do with the other 3 players (the attackers). He even says that his 3 backs will be outnumbered. (Not going to happen with a team that only sends 3 players into the attack.)

At this level you don't normally see the offsides rule applied. For a strong defense I would use two lines behind the ball and 1 in front of the ball to prevent pass backs. (231) That gives you your 3 across
with 2 players in a covering line, plus if you use a high line of confrontation the flankers won't have long recovery runs to make after a transistion to defense.

 

Great response.

I asked our technical director about the formations at the start of the season, and he shrugged and said the point of any formation at this age is just to teach "depth." I'm inclined to agree with that.

My guys aren't fully grasping their positions, but they've successfully abandoned the magnetball they were still playing at U8.