"So tell me about your week": The Fall 2012 discussion thread

Discussion in 'Coach' started by elessar78, Sep 8, 2012.

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  1. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We were working on stop and start moves tonight and went off script for a bit and had them line up at the corner of the 18 and asked them to dribble the width of the 18 ON THE LINE, a straight line. I don't think one player successfully stayed on the line the whole time and did it with fluidity.

    Then I made them stand at the corner of the 18 and I stood at a point ten yards away on the line and asked them to execute a push pass to me. Only 2 out of 13 got it the first time. Only 5 got it after 3 rounds and 3 of those weren't "clean". I didn't reach for it even if it was close, it had to hit my feet.

    These girls are decent players but I feel bad. 2.5 years of work and they can't dribble in a straight line or make an accurate ten yard push pass. Jeez coach. More technical work!
     
  2. manutd02

    manutd02 Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    when do you dribble exactly in a straight line in a game? when do you play soccer golf ( essentially what you had them play with the 10yd push pass) in a game?

    they are probably not as bad as you think. there is a reason we dont regularly train using such activities that isolate a component of the game, in this case being dribbling and passing technique. from what i have read your activities are game related so its understandable that they might struggle when you put them in a non-game related activity
     
  3. JoseP

    JoseP Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    I coach a middle school "A" boys team. There is a "B" and a "C" team as well. So, these guys are supposed to be halfway decent, and some are. So, I said everyone was dismissed, but first everyone needed to shoot the ball from the 18 and hit the crossbar before they could go. 10 of the 18 players got it within 5 minutes. I stopped it after 15 minutes. Those remaining 8 players would be there all weekend if I didn't intervene.

    I've got an hour everyday with these little monsters and most of that hour is technical. Starting next week we've got 15 games between now and November. Basically, 2 or 3 games in a 5 day week. I don't expect much improvement from those players.
     
  4. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ten of 18, Jose. That's pretty awesome ratio.

    I think there are situations where you dribble 2-10 yards regularly. It's more of the ability to be able to do it on command. Is it a big deal, not particularly but it's two of the most basic actions in a soccer game. Certainly one is more self-conscious in a non-game situation but the technique was bad to begin with—tells me, at the very least, we have to work on striking the ball and running w/ the ball.
     
  5. Ihateusernames

    May 16, 2007
    Merriam, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's just say I'm never doing HS girls again. Too much drama!
     
  6. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Being sarcastic, but did you expect it to be any other way? :D
     
  7. Ihateusernames

    May 16, 2007
    Merriam, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Growing up as a boy, yes! :cool:
     
    Beau Dure repped this.
  8. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    When you dribble in a straight line: While accelerating and sprinting, while dribbling along the touch line.

    When you play soccer golf: With advanced players, almost every short pass will be to a specific foot. A standing target is easy. You need to accurately pass to a moving player's foot too (the "2" pass of the "1-2").

    Longer passes require accuracy too, but the flight time means the receiver will never stand still to receive a ball on the ground even if he is a "target" instead of making a run. The flight time allows the receiver to adjust. Since the receiver is moving, a little less accuracy is needed but you still need to put the ball into an advantageous position for the receiver. Inaccuracy leads to intercepted passes and 50/50 balls.
     
  9. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Had our first game yesterday and the girls did much better than I expected. We work on just passing and receiving drills leading up to the game but nothing on shape, rules and such. Still we had a lot of bungling with the girls running around chasing the ball. But still, from all that I was able to see good progress and good potential. Funny enough I had to restrain myself fromgiving too much tactical instructions. Once after a player burst forward ran the length of the half and scored, I caught myself saying "you have to play to your open teammate who was there in space as well as........." then I thought dude she just scored what are you thinking, so to play it off I said "if you feel yourself running out of steam just play it sideways to Player X who was there with you. Good job Great goal I am proud of you"

    Whew, truth is despite the goal she made the wrong choice. my natural instinct was to point that out and i hope I receoved in time not to put her down....

    Practice this past week has been great even though I was a little bit on the timid side. I have all these drills that I came up with and just am hesitant to take over (yeah the lead coach did say it was okay but still....) Anyway, I am lying awake late at night thinking about drills that might help and writing them down..

    Oh and now I have the U6 boys too which my son plays for som I ma pulling double duty from here on in. Talking about jumping in the deep end....
     
  10. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Had my first game at U9 yesterday, with so many changes from U8: Larger fields, goalkeepers, a ref, 7v7 (might go to 8v8).

    I was surprised at how well my team adapted. The practice before the game was awful. Then we got out there for a game, and most players grasped their positions. We had one disastrous five-minute stretch in which we conceded three goals (my first genuine tactical switch stopped the run), but it was otherwise even against a pretty good team.

    Not to say a few funny things didn't happen. The ref inspected our shin guards and cleats, which I probably should've expected but didn't. Two players had shin guards outside their socks. They had to change. Of course, they were two players I had slated to start, so I frantically rewrote my substitution scheme (designed to give everyone 30 minutes of a 50-minute game, with the two keepers getting 40). Might've spent more time fussing with my clipboard for the first 10 minutes than I did watching the game. Fortunately, I have a good assistant.

    We had agreed to try 7v7 for one week and then re-assess. We'll likely go 8v8 so we don't have so many players sitting out. Which leads to a question:

    The U.S. Soccer curriculum recommends a 3-3-1 formation for 8v8 games. Why? Aren't we trying to develop attacking players?

    And then you go to 9v9, and they recommend 3-3-2 or 3-2-3!

    I did the USSF-suggested 2-3-1 for 7v7. If we go to 8v8, I'm just adding a second forward. 2-3-2.
     
  11. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    This is not quite what you may expect to see in this thread. After 19 years of volunteer coaching, I am as of this Fall no longer coaching. It is going to be nice to take a break for a year or two, but I keep thinking about starting again in a couple of years. I miss it already.
     
  12. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    If a coach can't figure out his own plan to develop attacking skills using a 331 system, then (as USYSA suggests) run (3v3 works fine) SSGs in practice and rotate players through the lines when you sub during matches. Use warmups to practice technique. Stand back and watch the kids play. That will work with U-Littles.

    It is better if a coach can give individual feedback on technique and positive reinforcement on good tactical choices, but most volunteer coaches are challenged when it comes to teaching basic movement and soccer specific techniques. So they spend too much time on tactics. Of the four performance aspects of the sport, coaching the technical and physical areas require the most coaching knowledge and experience to be effective. I am not putting anyone down here, just stating my view. I have played all my life, and I still feel inadequate to coach technique. Professional coaches learn to coach technique on-the-job. After a few years volunteer coaches are far behind their contempory professional coaches in progress down the learning curve.

    From looking back across the experience "gap" I think the professional coaches understand the experience "gap" better than volunteer coaches. It is what it is. The kids need us--the volunteer coaches. There are over 20 million players in the USA. We just have to do the best we can.
     
  13. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    8 on a side I can go along with 3-3-1 on defense. Then work on attacking a back or a mid. That is working on a counter when and if you win the ball on defense.

    When you go 9 on a side. Go with 3-3-1-1 when on defense. On attack attack 3-3-2 bring a back or a mid into the attack

    After that if you go 11 on a side. Go with 4-4-1-1 on defense then on attack move to 4-4-2. Your your wing mids in your attack.
     
  14. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    I have found not enough coverage defensively with only 2 defenders in a 2-3-2. Same with the midfield in a 3-2-2. With the latter, you really only get 4 into the attack.

    I encourage when moving forward to see the 3-3-1, to transform into a 1-3-3 as the MF and wide defenders push up. Ideally it is really a 1-2-1-2-1 giving length and width to our team.
     
  15. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I'd agree, and I want to avoid spending too much time on tactics. Our practices need to be about touching the ball, not going over the finer points of how to play in a formation. I made a funny photo gallery trying to explain how to spread out into positions without going too far apart (in one picture, a flying saucer landed in the giant space between the back line and the midfield), and I've tried to avoid stopping practice to talk.

    I found in our first game that our players were often drifting back to help on defense. That's good in a lot of ways, but it meant we were really slow to get on the attack.

    So for me, adding a second forward to our 2-3-1 is the simplest thing to do.

    With our players drifting back, I think a 2-3-2 would become a 2-1-2-1-1 of sorts.

    I suppose I could go with the 1-2-1-2-1 you're suggesting, which would essentially add a sweeper to the 2-3-1 we were playing. I'd just need to find ways to encourage people to move forward.
     
  16. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Got creamed 6-1 today ouch. First time in several seasons we've posted a score line like that. The funny thing was we didn't play "6-1" bad—although Bill Parcells would disagree:) We've played much worse games but escaped. We played a good team with really nice skills and really nice play—not a kickball team whatsoever. They didn't do anything flashy, just did many of the basics well. Some of the balls they took down cleanly had a high degree of difficulty. My kids had trouble handling these bigger, taller, faster and more skillful group—but it was a good experience. A couple of my "lesser" kids had good moments so I think that should give them something to build on individually.

    With 13 players, I did one major sub (all 5 on the bench went in at the 15 min mark (30 min halves)) per half and another, smaller 2-person sub in each half. So, it was a lot longer than they were usually used to playing so that didn't help things. But it kept things simple.

    I told 'em after the game that this is how subs will go, so make the most of your time 'cause you may not go back in. Additionally, I told them that the two people get to go back in and that's dependent on performance. We'll see if this ratchets up competition.
     
  17. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm playing 2-3-2 with 8v8.

    I agree not enough coverage it makes the wide mids/wing backs more essential to coming back but also getting involved. Tough task for young kids.

    For me the 3-3-1 is kinda blah. Maybe if it's a 3-diamond (3-1-2-1). WITH THAT SAID, today against a very good team—I needed more cover in the back or at least in the midfield. No point in having 2 forwards if they don't see the ball much. So if I know the opponent could give us problems then I may put 3 in the back or 4 in the midfield.
     
  18. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
  19. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't see how it would be unfair to practice 2x? I can see an argument that it is, but I don't see it.

    Most likely, it is wrong.
     
  20. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    1. no (unless you are practicing speed)
    2. see #1 :)

    Gotta be able to do something if you aren't the quickest one on the field. Its bound to happen.
     
  21. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Put a team on the field today with 5 returning U-12's (other two weren't available), 1 kid I had at U-10 (sorta a manchild) who I lost to basketball last year and 6 kids who are playing travel for the first time. New goalkeeper. We've had 3 or 4 practices in advance of it.

    Still got a big 7-1 result vs. a team from our division last year with most of their players back. My boys from last year all played very well. Linking passes to switch fields. Simple feet passes backwards to create space etc. Got a new kid who has played rec for a million years ( I coached him when he was in third grade), his vision and ball handling ability makes me look like a far better coach than I really am (love that :)). Was lots of fun. I am encouraged that we will be able to move up a division this season. These kids will really enjoy succeeding at this level, as before last year the four 'best' players from their team decided to go the premier club route. My guys look like they are every bit the player as the others.

    Just need to teach my goalkeeper that the white line on the penalty box is not an invisible dog fence and he doesn't have an electronic collar. The only goal was after he bobbled the ball, it spilled to the other team and chased the opponent to the edge of the box. He was one step from pushing it off his foot, but he saw that white line and quickly retreated.
     
  22. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    1. Why would it be unfair for kids to play soccer? The club might not like it if their pay-to-play sessions are not full.
    2. No. At U8 the emphasis is on general athlectic skills rather than soccer specific skills. You could call it speed training. Either way it is about athletic movements, classified into general or specific groups. Using the right technique makes you faster and for some movements reduces the risk of injury.
     
  23. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    I'm down to coaching 2 rec teams this season-- 3rd grade girls and 10th grade girls.

    First game was yesterday and when I woke yup, I felt miserable. Turns out I had a kidney stone (passed it within 5 hours of waking up). It was the kind that result from getting dehydrated. So lousy 1st game for me
     
    ranova repped this.
  24. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    The only part that's unfair is that most kids don't have that opportunity. With limited field space in our congested area, we're only getting one practice-field slot per week. So this coach must have a really big yard (not something commonly seen in our region of hyperinflated real estate) or some other sort of deal.

    But you and the others are right. Why penalize kids who have an opportunity?

    I do worry a little about league play getting lopsided, but again, that might be a different issue. Some teams are full of players and parents who will do whatever it takes to get better. I've had trouble getting my teams to show up on time to the games. (I've met some fantastic people and had some good players who are up in travel now, but I still sometimes envy coaches who don't have to chase after the disinterested parents and fish their disruptive kids out of the woods.)

    That's an interesting point. Not at all what we're learning from U.S. Soccer through the F license and the other training information available -- they're telling us to try to make the kids fall in love with the ball. The Twitter responses I got were along the lines of, "Well, they'll win now, but when they're U10s, they'll wish they had done some skill training."

    But while yours may be a minority opinion, I see what you're saying. I guess I'm thinking they'll work on the general athleticism at school in P.E., plus whatever sports they try in other seasons, while my two hours a week for practice and the game should be soccer-specific.
     
  25. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Word of warning, check with your club. If you are practicing in an official club capacity, make sure you/the club are insured. I can almost certainly guarantee that your backyard is not listed as a field covered by the insurance policy.
     

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