"So tell me about your week": The Fall 2012 discussion thread

But when you have 10 or 12 minute quarters as many leagues have at this age, it makes it worse from a parent viewpoint when their kid doesn't get to play an entire quarter.

 

The U12G rec team I help coach has two 30-minute halves. The head coach subs around 10 minutes so they can get into the flow, as opposed to subbing more often every 6 minutes. Works much better that way for us and it's easier to keep track of.

 

Our u8 league has 2 25min halves with 4 field players and a keeper. With 9 kids on the team I designate one kid as the goalie for the whole game and then have 2 teams of 4 that rotate en-masse every quarter. Every week, I rotate one player counter-clockwise so everybody gets to play each field position twice and keeper once. Well, not quite that since we only have 7 games

This worked quite well in the first game. I made a couple interim subs when a kid got too tired or had an injury in which case I'd sub in his "understudy". Luckily the keeper didn't need a sub!

My day gig is software so I wrote up a little ruby script that manages the weekly rotation and generates an SVG of the "game plan". The kids like to see the plan! And I give a copy to my assistant coach on game day to run the subs. Here's last weeks plan:

 

Wow they are out one quarter out of 4 what if they don't show up for practice? How much playing time should they get then?

Sounds like the parents need to grow up.

 

I'm assuming Monkey Boy is referring to rec soccer, not club. In most rec leagues at U8, the primary goal is to involve the kids as much as possible, not get results, and play at least half the game, preferably spread out along the whole game. I agree that some bad egg parents are out there, but even the good ones don't want to see their kid ride the pine for a full 12 minutes when other teams are subbing theirs out on a regular schedule.

At this age and at that level there's no punishment for missing practice. Why punish a kid for something he or she has no control over?

 

I was a board member of Ayso for 15 years. Ayso logo was "everybody plays" that meant a half. Some aysos broke the game down into quarters and let every player play three quarters of the game.

That's more then fair.

But you also tried to teach the players to play the game the right way.

You take players out of the game too soon like after 5 minutes. They will not be playing the right way. Then you have kids even at 8 years old ask the coach why they were taken out so soon. What did I do wrong.

Let them play all out for a quarter once they go in. Then when ever they are taken out they had their chance to look their best. Then after they rest for a quarter they go back in for another half.

 

That is a best practice for any "level." All U-Little soccer should be about kids having fun and player development rather than matches.

 

I am in the middle of the high school season now and I have a boy who is one of those players who is a great kid but not much of a soccer player (yet). He is returning to soccer after several years away and his only previous experience was a little rec league ball at that time.

We had a home game the other day against a local rival that absolutely destroyed us in our home contest last year. About 20 minutes into the first half I was doing a fitness check on the guys on the field trying to determine if we needed fresh legs. As I started giving out substitution assignments this particular player made a statement that he was scared to play this team. The team was big and fast and generally good all around and this boy knew he was outmatched. I told him there was nothing to be afraid of and that when the time came for him to enter the match he would be ok.

In the second half his time came. He normally plays defense but he truly was outmatched and I didn't want to put him in a situation where he was almost guaranteed to fail. We needed new blood at the forward spot so I gave him his shot. When I called his name you could tell he was not feeling good about entering. I told him he would be playing up top and his tension seemed to ease a little but came back almost instantly.

"OK coach, but what do I do"

"Stay wide, and have fun."

"OK coach" with a nervous smile he got on the field.

About a minute into his shift he is all alone running up the side as the ball is being worked between the middle and far side. At the right moment he angles his run in towards the goal and the ball is played to him. He takes a perfect touch and takes a great shot that ends up being saved and he is eventually called offside. With a worried look to me I just give him a thumbs up and tell him he did everything right and he smiles and carries on.

When he finally came off all the fear was gone. The kid couldn't stop grinning the rest of the game as his teammates congratulated him on a job well done. We lost 3-0 that day in a game that was even in everything else. But if I could get that kind of reaction from my players I would take that result everyday.

 

My point is each player to do his best has to get into their rythim. It takes time on the field to do that, and each player is different. Take them out too soon like a machine that won't happen. What's the plan get them in and out, then in and out, and in and out and in an out then go home?

Are they going to get better as players if you do that?

 

You know I hate the term let's get fresh legs into the game. But in this respect it is ok to do. You take players out who were on the field long enough to get into their rythim and take them out when they are at least tired.

 

I have no plan other than knowing where I can use each player on the field. I let them play until they start to drag a little and then let them play some more. I will sub them and say a few words to them as they go on and come off.

I agree with you about rhythm and allowing players to get comfortable. There are times when a change is needed sooner but in general I like to let them work through things on there own. It usually takes a few games but I love it that my players don't look over at the bench after thay have made a big mistake expecting the hook. They know what to do to fix there error. If they do it again though....

Of course coaching a HS team makes time management, not easier, but different in that I am not expected to provide equal time. Time on the field is earned. While I try to give every player time in every game sometimes a player may only get 10-15 out of 80. Others will play a full match. When I coach club teams it's much more a balancing act. I despise pay to play.

 

When organizing teams, it is a balance between players and coaches. The more coaches, the more playing time.

If a parent complains about something like playing time, I can easily look at them and tell them "if we had more parents volunteer to coach, I can make as many teams needed." Another color of t-shirt and equipment bag are easy to get.

 

Its a perfectly legit thing to do. Kids under 14 are not little men and women. Lungs and brains are not fully developed. They are going through weird growth cycles, etc. Their muscles aren't fully developed. They will sprint too much, their body doesn't cool off as efficiently as an adult player may. They do need these breaks - and if the other team does it, you should keep an even playing field.

These breaks, also, if used properly, you can use to pass an observation, teach, correct a player soon after.

But to your point of rythm. Part of the learning process is to learn how to recover on the field. Every run doesn't have to be a spring. I don't expect a 8 yo first time player to do that, but as they get older it becomes part of the learning process.

 

Yes, this is a rec in-house league, and yes I would love to play the players the entire game or a half straight. In the off-season when the parents signed the kids up I stated my concern over having 12 kids for 6 positions - way too much. The parents said they didn't care and preferred to stay with me coaching. In fact I had to turn away over half a dozen other kids who asked to join our team.

Maybe it's ok to you to have an 8 year old sitting on the sideline watching for an entire 25 minute half, but that doesn't sit well to them. The kids are much happier to only wait 5 minutes in comparison, and it is afterall about their fun.

As for playing the right way, well we still control the ball for the vast majority of the half - our team is in the opponents half for most of the game passing it around to break them down.

The real challenge for the kids seems to be during practice when we play 6v6 for half of our practice time - no subbing out during that time obviously. The kids have a much tougher time trying to beat each other than control the game over other teams, and they are playing this for about 30 minutes with a couple of water breaks.

In a perfect world we'd have 2 subs for the 6 players and the kids wouldn't have to sit there impatiently waiting their turn. During game time the primary job with subbing that I am directed to follow is to give all of the kids equal playing time. I won't kick kids off the team - in fact when we first organized we kept it to 10 players, which was only 1 sub for each of the 4v4 games. The league administrator put additional players on our team to bring us to the max and none of the kids want to leave the team.

Please explain the best way to do that for 12 kids playing 25 minute halves. Subbing every 10 minutes would give 6 players an extra 10 minutes of play compared to the other 6. The only other even distribution would be forcing the kids to sit for a full half. Since it's obvious nick that you're so much better at this than me, then provide the easy answer I'm missing!

 

You did not read in any of my post that a player in rec should sit for 25 minutes in any game. Divide the time in quarters that would be 12 minutes. Play them whole quarters 3 of them and they sit for one of those. You can even make coaching points to some as they are watching the others play.

So they are all playing apx 36 minutes a game. If parents complain teach them what the game is really about and not what they think the game is about. Tell them it takes time for them to get into the game and not just 6 min to get into the game.

Another words teach them what good soccer is all about because they don't know. If they did they would not think 6 or 5 minutes shifts is good for their kids

 

I just tried to put the minutes on paper and your right it did not work out on paper. So you can't give three full quarters a game with those numbers 12. You can give them a full half a game with some mintues left over so try and do that.

 

When we say "get into their rhythm," it is not just about the player's physical aspect but the mental aspect too. Being on the field 5 minutes at a time will reduce the opportunity for the players to learn to "read" the game, which is an important part of the learning process. Watching a game from the bench (with no pressure and a view of the entire field) is not the same as developing "vision" on the field.

 

I think its better to give meaningful playing experience than to divide up playing time equally at every match.

The way I would work uneven quarters was to: 1) never play anyone four quarters in the field (unless everyone else was getting at least three), 2) give extra quarters to the keepers (keep half a game and in the field half a game--everyone including keepers always got a minimum of half a game in the field), and 3) make sure the same players were not playing only half the match every week.

I never received complaints about playing time, but I think that was because I rotated players through different positions (nobody played fullback or other position for 2 quarters and then sat the bench, which I think went a long way to satisfying the parents). Using a 433 system I usually limited a key position (CM) to the two best-skilled players in order to field a viable side, but the value of those players support to everyone else was apparent to everyone and no one complained. After all if your CM cannot play effectively, the whole side suffers.

 

Exactly. If you want to devolp soccer intelligence they need to work through those issues, so allowing for longer shifts forces a more cerebral approach, rather than the physical "leave it all on the field" method.

Don't get me wrong I expect my players to play hard, as hard as they can, but within the context of what we as a team are trying to do. Which is to play within a semi-loose orginizational stucture using good decision making and creative thinking to break down our opponent and, hopefully score some goals while denying them to the other team.

If you are gassed your thinking skills are slowed dramatically. The player/team has to learn when to go flat out and when to back off. But thay can only do that if they are given the opportunity to learn in a game situation.

 

When you can not give each player the same minutes in an idividual game. Give them the same minutes in two individual games so it averages out each players is getting the same minutes over all.

 

Now I have to go to a yankee game and i DON'T EVEN LIKE BASEBALL. lAST YANKEE GAME I SAW THEY WERE THROWING MONEY TO REGGIE jACKSON ON THE FIELD. The time before that I saw Mickey Mantle hit three home runs in a double header. They looked like three pop ups but the ball kept going.

My kids invited me. My sons company has a box there free food waitresses. The waitresses interest me

 

Last year I was able to work it out so that players were on the field for about 10-12 minutes but never sat for more than 5. Worked great, the kids had a lot of fun -- it's not fun to sit/wait. I also rotate the kids through all of the positions best I can by having a position rotation with after each substitution.

I've been coaching soccer for about 15 years now from U-littles to high school competitive, been playing for about 30 years. The one major thing I hate is having to sit on the sidelines and watch while others are having fun playing. Kids have fun playing.

With the young ones, I do not have starters vs subs - everyone plays every position as equal as possible, regardless of the opponent. This was a problem a couple of years ago with this team, but all of the players have improved so much that the opponents aren't really a factor. We almost always totally control the game while the other teams are essentially playing bunker/counter. Now the true competition comes during practice.

Anyway, thank for the idea to split into 12 minute shifts. I'll give it a shot, although it limits players position rotation during games, I can work out a position rotation throughout the season.