So after six games what have we learned about Klinsmann?

Stop with the facts. Stop. It doesn't matter.

 

I don't believe that ok.

 

Were you a card carrying member of the Fire Bob Mob?

 

sweet. Did you try counterattacking upper, upper management or did you play balls possession?

so many angry bigsoccerers.

happy holidays.

 

the US were chasing the game for 65minutes. Ghana was killing the game. That is what the 5 man midfield is built for and what JK is hoping we learn. How to get 'outplayed' and win.

 

We were only "chasing the game" because our guys didn't finish their chances. We played better that day.

That 5 man midfield that was built to kill the game is lucky it didn't lose 3-1 in regulation. But like I said, Bob can't run onto the field and kick the ball in the back of the net for his guys. He put us in a position to win. We created enough chances against that 5 man midfield to score multiple goals. Our guys dropped the ball.

 

Such under rating of our players. I still think our Donovan, Dempsey, and Howard could play for some of the top teams in england, italy, or even spain but its the 'stigma' of being an 'american' player that keeps big teams away, or even reasonable teams willing to dish out a decent amount (for an american player).

 

Yep.


BB tried it by bringing in Feilhaber. Came close to working. We had such close vcalls. He should have scored himself.

Unlucky.

 

I feel like people seriously underrate how offensively good we were under Bradley, especially once we found our niche around mid-2009. The problem was that we failed to find a way of covering up our weak backline other than to just score enough goals to stay ahead for 90 minutes. Again, the Mexico Gold Cup final of 2011 and Brazil Confederations Cup final of 2009 show this perfectly. We took two-nil leads and both in excellent fashion, IN A COUNTER-ATTACKING SYSTEM MIND YOU, but that wasn't enough to hold the opponent back, even with a healthy backline in the Confederations Cup final. Against Slovenia recently, we scored enough goals to keep them at bay.

I think that by keeping possession, and possibly pressing up the field like we did against Slovenia, we can really mask a lot of the problems in our backline.

 

This is such a ridiculous conspiracy with absolutely no basis in reality. Champions League football is worth million upon millions of dollars. If a player is good enough to help a team get to the Champions League, or the knockout round, a team is going to buy him. It doesn't matter what country they are from.

There are close to 100 Americans playing professionally in Europe. There is no stigma or mystery attached to being an American. If the players are good enough, they get bought.

You still haven't answered why there is no stigma against Australian players or South Koreans? Why is their no stigma against Moroccan players?

Why is it, that the only country on planet Earth that has a stigma attached to their players is the United States?

Clint Dempsey has spent 5 seasons in England. He's played in a European Cup final. Started in two World Cups.

He has been in the shop window for the best team in Europe to look at. Not one bid for his services has been made since he arrived. He's simply not good enough to crack the lineup of the elite teams in Europe.

Donovan had a chance at Bayern, when Donovan was in his prime a couple years ago. He couldn't crack the lineup.

You have first hand evidence that runs contrary to your conspiracy theory, yet you cling to it as though your life depended on it.

Come back to reality. Its a safe place. I promise.

 

Have you been to europe lately? There is a stigma about being american, especially the idea that we don't understand 'football'.

Also, our politics don't help. But I rather not get into that.

I learned to just tell everyone I was 'canadian' after a while. (sorry, don't want to ofend anyone. Just telling my side).

I believe it has to do with how from the beginning we wanted to establish our self as not having any ties to Europe. Lack of metric system, lack of popularity of Football in our country.

Morrocco has many immigrant kids who grow up in france, and they tehmselves have a decent footballing system/ teams in their country. Better ones in Africa.

South Korea? Have you seen their club teams play? Rated higher than the J league, who recently had a team go toe to toe and beat Monterrey, concacaf's strongest team from the region. Mexico, a league which is easily above MLS standards.

Australia has closer ties to England, therefore they are more 'european' IMO.

Dempsey sure was being looked at by the biggest clubs after that chip goal on Juventus. Buuuut... once they sniffed around and saw how much Fulham wanted, they probably didn't eve ntry because they'd rather dish out similar money for a competitor of his, with similar talent.

He couldn't crack the line up because he was still only 20!!

Its like Altidore coming back to MLS and staying there for the remainder of his career.

He was given some chances, but got homesick, had trouble with being away from home, and just didn't stick it out even though he was a promising talent after the WC.

Reality? You mean glass half empty? I rather not.

It all comes down to your opinion.

I showed you where I got the Dempsey figure for how much he is 'estimated' to be valued. U called it baloney until I provided a link!

Fact is, for his 11million figure, europe would rather spend that coin on a up and coming talent from Cruziero, or Internacional than the gritty Dempsey yet flashy Dempsey.

Truth is, to europe, he's probably only worth half that, if not a little more. Thats a good chunk of change.

 

not necessarily.

 

I think you are confusing his time with Leverkusen a decade ago with his loan to Bayern under Klinsi just a few years ago. In the prime of his career he couldn't crack the Bayern lineup, his only real chance to play with an elite squad.

 

I think in general, our players do have a lower soccer IQ. I don't know your background, but I have been to hundreds, if not thousands of professional training sessions. US players, even our best players, tend to be reactive players rather than proactive players.

Even the Donovan's and Dempsey's are a step slower in how they read the game.

Do you honestly believe that Manchester United (or some similar club) won't put a bid in for Dempsey or Donovan because of the Iraq war?

Yup. I've covered several games involving Korean teams during my career. The K-League is a better league than MLS, but nowhere near the level of the Manchester Uniteds of the world.

Doesn't change the fact that Korea isn't known for producing talent. They aren't "closely tied to Europe". Yet they don't have any stigma attached to them. Maybe because there is no stigma against American players either.

Australia is much more American than it is European.

And I highly doubt that elite teams value a players understanding of the metric system over actual soccer talent.

Any links, or are you basing this on your speculation?

Because I follow soccer pretty damn closely, especially the US national team and our yanks abroad, and I didn't read one single story from one credible source that linked Dempsey to any big club.

Check your facts. Donovan went on loan to Bayern Munich in 2009, when he was playing the absolute best soccer of his career. He didn't appear in a single Bundesliga game while he was there....and Klinsmann was the coach. And Klinsmann loves Donovan. He simply wasn't good enough.

Not really. Donovan was loaned to one of the elite teams you say he is good enough to play for and he wasn't good enough to play for them.

Dempsey has been on display for all the top clubs teams to see, and nobody has made a bid for him. And he's cheap as shit compared to the guys the elite clubs do buy.

These are facts, not opinions.

You yourself questioned the validity of the site when you posted the link. It is a site that speculates and guesses. The values placed on players isn't based on anything else.

Dempsey's true value will be set when and if a club ever makes a bid for him, and Fulham state their asking price.

It hasn't happened yet. So any figures tossed around right now are nothing more than speculation and guessing.

 

Klinsi realized immediately we needed a true DM not two box to box guys. I never went through BB's head apparently.

Enough said.

 

I don't think you are entirely correct. I believe Donovan came on as a sub in about 3-4 Bundesliga matches, but never started a match. He played more in some friendlies and warmup matches, and even scored once or twice in those. But in real games he was a bench warmer, even as Klinsi's only off-season player addition.

 

I think his point still stands...the greatest American attacking player of all time wasn't good enough to start even one game for Bayern, even under a highly sympathetic coach who brought him in.

 

McBride was better.

 

Yeah...that dedicated DM did wonders for us against Slovenia a month ago.

In addition to a dedicated DCM, Klinsi has played another one, and another one on top of that in the midfield.

When he finally went away from that, our defense looked just as terrible.

Our defensive problems are a lot deeper than just playing a dedicated DCM.

I believe his only "official" game for Bayern were in cup matches, and all of those were off the bench.

 

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...muenchen-14/25345/spieler_landon-donovan.html

6 sub appearances in matches 18 through 23 in the 2008-09 season. He only booked enough minutes to get a Kicker rating in 2 of those matches, getting a mediocre 4,0 vs Hertha and a poor 5,5 vs Koeln.

So, while your memory is faulty...

...I completely agree with your overall point that he struggled on an elite team in the prime of his career, even with a coach who wanted him there. He wasn't anything other than a pedestrian, ineffective sub for Bayern.

 

In November 2008 Donovan trained with Bayern Munich,[19] before joining the German club on loan until the start of the 2009 MLS season in mid-March.[20] During his stay with Bayern, Donovan had appearances in five friendly matches, in which he scored four goals, five league games, and one DFB Cup match.[21] At the end of the loan period, Bayern declined to extend his loan.[22]

 

Alright, there is no way you are going to convince me that are defense has not improved under JK.

 

I don't see much to show that on the field. They have shown they can have tehir moments of Brilliance, Dempsey vs. Juventus, or Donovans runs on the wings we've seen, like that goal vs. Brasil, or his goal vs. Slovenia.

Training is one thing, playing in a game is another.

Some of the best players looked like crap in trainnig

No, but I think the 'stigma' that yanks perfer other sports to 'football' plays a role. They know our country still has yet to 'grasp' the sport, and do something with it. Not to mention the lack of good showings lately in a WC. That doesn't help.

MLS too, it's not 'technical' enough to get respect from teams outside of england.

Good. Then you see how tecnical Korea can be, how players with good touch and vision can develop there, or ply their trade in that league.

Its a good techincal league, like mexico. That is why players from Korea get more respect than yanks. Their players they produce tend to be a little better techincally on the ball then most MLS/US players.

That in itself is a reason why they rate' their players probably higher than US players.

Still closer ties to the 'queen' than us.

Common sense.

When ever a 'big team' like Juventus gets embarrassed, especially by a fulham, the guy who does most of the 'work' tends to get looked at as a prospect.

Not to mention the bigger clubs in that country watching.

I am sure teams in italy were looking at him as the 'juventus killer' at that time.

Hell, I remember a rumor floating around that Milan wanted him not to long ago. Although a rumor... like they say, there's always some bit of truth to them.

Yes, and the world deemed him a failiure again.

Remember what he did on a less talented everton? Playing against some of the best teams in europe? He showed what he could do to a chelsea, among other big teams in the premier league. His 2 goals and number of assists speak on how he plays when he has a team that 'takes him in' compared to Bayern.

He's a very 'touchy' player IMO, and can't thrive in a cold training style like at Bayern. Remember how he described training there? Trained more like enemies than teammates.

This is how well he could do when surrounded by a team that takes him in with open arms. Imagine if he had better talent around him. IMO He'd do even better.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzSCtncNs-U"]Landon Donovan EFC - YouTube[/ame]

I wrote above why I think he did bad at Bayern Munchen.

For an american, his 'estimated price' of 11million is pretty damn high. Go to south america, you can find some serious 'potential gems' at that price. In their heads too with probably a higher ceiling than dempsey.

No, I said its just a 'estimate' site. You take it for what its worth. There isn't anything like it though, so its better tahn a guess of mine, or yours for that matter.

I am sure there is a figure on his head around there. For that price, europe thinks he isn't worth it.

 

I would agree that our defense has improved, or rather, we're doing more to concede less goals. Our defense is still as sketchy as ever, but now that we press high up the field and keep possession more often, the opponent has less time on the ball to exploit that fact.

The problem is that we've been sacrificing our attack majorly by being so deliberately slow in possession, and pressing, while something I'm all for, fatigues our team quickly and reveals a lack of pace at the back. It's partly why I'd like to see Geoff Cameron introduced into the system as a centerback - He's great on the ball, quick, sizeable, strong, and an overall good defender.

Overall, I think we need to attack the same way we did last cycle ( or against Slovenia), and press and possess the ball more in order to hide our defensive deficiencies.

 

Yes, our very best players can make plays like that once in a while, just like second and third-tier players from the world's top 10-15 national teams.

Japan is a baseball country that did not have a professionalized national soccer league until the '90s just like us. Australia didn't have a professional league until 6 years ago and soccer until recently was considered a game for "poofs".

Somehow Yuto Nagatomo, Hidetoshi Nakata, Harry Kewell, and Craig Johnston were able to overcome the oppressive bias against non-soccer countries and establish themselves in elite Champions League sides.

MLS probably isn't perceived as "technical" enough to get respect from elite European clubs...because it isn't technical enough to be respected.

And it's also still incorrect that teams outside England don't appreciate American talent. How did Mike Bradley get to Heerenveen? How did Jozy Altidore get to Villarreal? How did Freddy Adu get to Benfica if non-English clubs are so biased against MLS players as you claim?

When players are good enough, they get chances.

But I thought you were making the case that the perception of MLS as a "not technical" league was incorrect?

Sure, Dempsey scored the crazy goal to beat Juventus (only after Fulham got smoked in the first leg), but it's hard to argue that Dempsey is the pure driving force for Fulham. That club (especially under Roy Hodgson) got results through disciplined team play, not the brilliant talents of their individuals.

Clubs like Juventus also have scouting teams that allow them to base their purchases on more than one sweet goal in a sloppy UEFA Cup tie.

Yes, a rumor...and nothing happened, not even a report of a bid. Same with Arsenal a few months ago. Dempsey has also been linked through the years with Liverpool, Dortmund, PSG, Villarreal, and others...but none of them have come close to happening.

And who has "deemed him a failure" because he didn't get signed by Milan? I believe there's a middle ground between saying a player isn't world-class and saying a player is a failure.

If the training he had at Bayern was so shitty...why did we hire the coach running those shitty training sessions that broke Landon down?

But he had way more talent around him and a way more sympathetic coach at Bayern, and it didn't work out at all.

...and made several contradictions and incorrect assertions.

I don't get this. Aren't you always telling everyone how South American football is superior to the rest of the world...but now their players are overpriced?

Either way, you don't have to be a Latinophile to know that the Argentine and Brazilian leagues consistently produce way way WAY better players than MLS.